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I quickly created a level using my score edit mechanic above. I managed to squeeze my score editor into a single plane, and then the notes can be anywhere. I already experimented with making parts in a level where the notes for the song are integrated into the level visibly which lookes rather nice. It'll take a lot more time and thought to make a quality level out of it, but I wanted to have it out there and saved on the server so I can copy it back later when I get the full version. You can win the two required basic mechanics in this level to use in your own ...
I made two simple puzzles with the notes, the latter being not quite optimised, because you need to recreate a certain melody, but the triggers right now get activated just for passing the right position with the individual notes, so it's not really functional. But I don't have time to work out the mechanic needed to do it properly (though I have a good idea of how to do it, and I think World of Colour also solved a similar problem in a way that I could use).
Eurogamer also put their review up:
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=259015 9/10.
Obviously, I'd have given it an 11/10. They complain that the creation bit is too complicated, something which although I understand, I can't really agree with - you need a balance between making it easy to use and making it powerful enough to have other people be able to create levels you want to play. The latter is definitely an unquestionable success already ... the former we'll have to wait and see, but honestly, I think it's easy enough. Sure, when you are ambitious it's going to be hard - a full, big level requires more work and consideration of overheating etc., but for many just toying around with creating a vehicle of some sort is easy and fun enough, and you can use existing templates. And this is an on-line game that's going to receive frequent updates to boot.
Ah well, it's a good score (and decent review) nonetheless!
I made two simple puzzles with the notes, the latter being not quite optimised, because you need to recreate a certain melody, but the triggers right now get activated just for passing the right position with the individual notes, so it's not really functional. But I don't have time to work out the mechanic needed to do it properly (though I have a good idea of how to do it, and I think World of Colour also solved a similar problem in a way that I could use).
Eurogamer also put their review up:
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=259015 9/10.
Obviously, I'd have given it an 11/10. They complain that the creation bit is too complicated, something which although I understand, I can't really agree with - you need a balance between making it easy to use and making it powerful enough to have other people be able to create levels you want to play. The latter is definitely an unquestionable success already ... the former we'll have to wait and see, but honestly, I think it's easy enough. Sure, when you are ambitious it's going to be hard - a full, big level requires more work and consideration of overheating etc., but for many just toying around with creating a vehicle of some sort is easy and fun enough, and you can use existing templates. And this is an on-line game that's going to receive frequent updates to boot.
Ah well, it's a good score (and decent review) nonetheless!
From own experiences and what I have read, its mainly been a cross region issue.
Also there have been posts on here, that claims it will be or is fixed on the release version.
Personally its still a 1st day buy for me, even with the lag problems and crashes I experienced with the Beta. Its just that good!
I even found a couple of old games I loved on the C64 that I would like to try and remake into a LBP versions ;D
The problem is that reviewers are typically under a heavy deadline for reviews, so they have to rush through every game they review. I've only had the beta a couple of days, and I'm still somewhat overwhelmed by the editor. It's something that takes time to get used to before you can really start to muscle it. That's time that reviewers don't have. Penny Arcade said something to that effect back on Assassin's Creed, that the game becomes much more enjoyable when you relax into it. Some games just aren't meant to be rushed through.
wco81, the lag is game killing for some cross region play only. Even with such lags, I still enjoy co-op very much. Meeting deepbrown in the game is warm and fuzzy because despite the lag and his harsh forum posts, he was really patient and kind in the game.
We "ha ha" and "lol" a lot for our mishaps. I could also sense his pride in his level. I can't wait to work on my own but serious work and home burdens prevent me from starting.
I think it's not that simple. The editor is deep and flexible but the problem of "getting layman to create levels" may be impossible or misdirected in the first place. It is more accurate to say LBP allows gamers to create levels for others to enjoy.
I have long advocated for "lazy tools" like YouTube video, stolen/existing graphics, etc. for creating a LBP level or object. These will allow casuals, non-gamers and busy people like me to participate easily. But at the same time, if these people come in, the resulting user levels may be very similar to each other. The really creative ones may have a harder time to shine through the glut of commodity user-generated content.
At the implementation level, LBP tools will undoubtly have a few rough edges given that this is version one. 9/10 is a good score, but it does not convey the greatness of the game. I believe LBP has opened up a new possibility for this gen gaming. We will only see more attempt at this basic idea moving forward.
On Friday, I was browsing for "out there" levels to see what people have done. (Many thanks to ShadowRunner for the code). There was this Guns n' Roses level, a proof of concept custom soundtrack level, the idea we had discussed long time ago.
Anyway, I -totally by mistake- selected online play. Three random players joined, all we did was dance and animate those cute little sack persons on the cart while the intro was playing. It sounds really stupid, I mean who would care Home avatars can dance, right? What do you know, for me that was a gaming experience of a life time.
Well, network code was really bad in the beta. That has to be the most lag intolerant game ever. Looking at the frame rate sometimes, you would think the host renders everything and streams to others. But when it works, it really works.
I noticed a weird aspect of competitive part during coop play. You (well, at least I) don't really care about the score, but with other people you still try to collect those blue thingies, getting the multipliers or whatever. At the end when your rank is announced you still don't care if it's first or last, but you make the appropriate facial experience, dance slap people around, in any case continue laughing. It's really difficult to describe, a joyful, silly competitiveness, but in reality very mature and ultimately nothing stressful or maybe even a little irrelevant. As some wise men said before, it's not the destination, it's the journey.
So yes, I'd give the beta 11/10 like Arwin. Anything less would be an insult to gaming.
That said, I do think there are serious issues with the game. Jumping is a little bit too unresponsive, very weird decision for a game with that much emphasis on platforming. And that emphasis itself feels too much for me. The editor is powerful and all, but in the end the ways sackboys can interact with the world seems very limited.
Take the Tetris example, you can make a game like tetris, but is it a game people want to play because it's actually fun, or because it's something new, unexpected, maybe a tribute to LBP's expressiveness?
We had this other discussion about some limited create mode capilities in play mode (I was against at the time). But in the end, do I really want to play Sudoku with a couple of awkward switches?
I think an ability to map right analog stick to a device (gun, platform, brick, etc.) would solve a lot of my problems. It's not like that stick is used for anything when R2 is not pressed.
Regarding another point from Eurogamer review, I think limited respawning is a good decision. What I don't get is why it's not parametrized like most other devices.
Anyway I didn't get to spend much time with the beta, so I should stop here, the game is still an 11/10 though.
Anyway, I -totally by mistake- selected online play. Three random players joined, all we did was dance and animate those cute little sack persons on the cart while the intro was playing. It sounds really stupid, I mean who would care Home avatars can dance, right? What do you know, for me that was a gaming experience of a life time.
Well, network code was really bad in the beta. That has to be the most lag intolerant game ever. Looking at the frame rate sometimes, you would think the host renders everything and streams to others. But when it works, it really works.
I noticed a weird aspect of competitive part during coop play. You (well, at least I) don't really care about the score, but with other people you still try to collect those blue thingies, getting the multipliers or whatever. At the end when your rank is announced you still don't care if it's first or last, but you make the appropriate facial experience, dance slap people around, in any case continue laughing. It's really difficult to describe, a joyful, silly competitiveness, but in reality very mature and ultimately nothing stressful or maybe even a little irrelevant. As some wise men said before, it's not the destination, it's the journey.
So yes, I'd give the beta 11/10 like Arwin. Anything less would be an insult to gaming.
That said, I do think there are serious issues with the game. Jumping is a little bit too unresponsive, very weird decision for a game with that much emphasis on platforming. And that emphasis itself feels too much for me. The editor is powerful and all, but in the end the ways sackboys can interact with the world seems very limited.
Take the Tetris example, you can make a game like tetris, but is it a game people want to play because it's actually fun, or because it's something new, unexpected, maybe a tribute to LBP's expressiveness?
We had this other discussion about some limited create mode capilities in play mode (I was against at the time). But in the end, do I really want to play Sudoku with a couple of awkward switches?
I think an ability to map right analog stick to a device (gun, platform, brick, etc.) would solve a lot of my problems. It's not like that stick is used for anything when R2 is not pressed.
Regarding another point from Eurogamer review, I think limited respawning is a good decision. What I don't get is why it's not parametrized like most other devices.
Anyway I didn't get to spend much time with the beta, so I should stop here, the game is still an 11/10 though.
I did the same thing just this morning. I grouped with one other player so I could get the two-player items from the third level. Since I was only after those objects, I didn't pay much attention to getting points, so the other guy "won" the round. And sure enough, my little Sackboy started crying.
The emote system is great... I had his little tongue hanging out and arms flailing in the air when we were going downhill on the skateboard.
I never got around to testing that, but I was wondering about it. They do offer the "double" respawn object, but it seems like it would be easier to simply make it an adjustable parameter. And for levels that aren't meant to be difficult or frustrating, make it infinite, at the choice of the level designer.betan said:
Do the amount of respawns per device change depending on how many players are in a level? So maybe it's three for one player, but six for two, and so on? I never watched for that either.
If Eurogamer gave LBP a 9 then no other game should EVER get a 10 this year.
I hear ya. I was honestly expecting an 8 from them but someone pulled teeth and got a 9 out of them
This game does so much. I can't wait for the SP experience...yes I said SP experience. I want to see what MM has made and see what the story is. Next, I will probably start to work on the levels I had proofed. I was hyped for the game before and the beta just solidified everything for me.
You're complaining because of a 9/10?Hahaha Eurogamer just secured some Banner hits, and honestly lost whatever credibility they had with me. Not that they care of course
Wonders will never cease.It’s not that 9 is not a good score but I also have some questions how such a fun game can score less then a boring open world game. That “perfect” open world game is sitting unfinished on my shelf gathering dust.
I will not lose any sleep over it, but as somebody who worked in the past for magazines and gaming websites, I find the whole trend only curious. It’s quite easy to say it’s paranoia.
Why do you think that somebody with my background (even with still some friends in that business) don’t trust reviews ? Two words, “Commercial interests”
I will not lose any sleep over it, but as somebody who worked in the past for magazines and gaming websites, I find the whole trend only curious. It’s quite easy to say it’s paranoia.
Why do you think that somebody with my background (even with still some friends in that business) don’t trust reviews ? Two words, “Commercial interests”
It's a hard game to score. On the one hand, what it's doing is incredible and puts it head and shoulders above all the other titles out there. On the other hand, it is buggy and awkward. Even if they fix the disappearing geometry when collisions get too much, the jump mechanic with the automatic z-depth shift creates all sorts of problems. eg. The Metal Gear Shadow Moses level. The left to get the card has a central plank moving up and down, and ledges front and back of this. I got stuck on the front ledge. I couldn't just jump down onto the lift. I had to time it right to jump so the auto-position would place me on the plank, and it took an age! And then on the top, I had the same trouble. So I probably spent some five minutes on the same bit of screen jumping and getting nowhere. These issues can probably be addressed during design, but if you measure the game by what people are playing, and what gets published, then they'll plague the game. The actual jumping seems a bit unresponive at times too, which doesn't help.
As their prelude to the review quoted for SEUCK, LBP probably defies conventional rating. It's different things to different people. For many people the creation is fabulous. For others, thinking the widest possible audience, it's too complicated. I can't see many 8 year olds creating something that matches their vision. I expect a lot will get frustrated with the way edits affect stuff already created and give up trying. The game is incredibly beautiful, incredibly fun and happy, but also frustrating and awkward. For someone looking for the ultimate platformer, LBP isn't a 10.
Of course, every game has faults, and in that respect, going by the gaming press's standards instead of my standards, LBP should be a 10. It combines innovation and a whole new world of game dynamic, slapping an overpowered and unstable rocket-booster onto Gaming's behind and jetting it forwards.
As their prelude to the review quoted for SEUCK, LBP probably defies conventional rating. It's different things to different people. For many people the creation is fabulous. For others, thinking the widest possible audience, it's too complicated. I can't see many 8 year olds creating something that matches their vision. I expect a lot will get frustrated with the way edits affect stuff already created and give up trying. The game is incredibly beautiful, incredibly fun and happy, but also frustrating and awkward. For someone looking for the ultimate platformer, LBP isn't a 10.
Of course, every game has faults, and in that respect, going by the gaming press's standards instead of my standards, LBP should be a 10. It combines innovation and a whole new world of game dynamic, slapping an overpowered and unstable rocket-booster onto Gaming's behind and jetting it forwards.
Well that was a fun run. Anyone that felt the magic of this game knows that it deserves all the praise that it will get in the next few weeks. Personally, I'm glad that creating levels takes a lot of work, it makes you feel that much better to see people enjoy your own creations. It was fun watching the progress of fellow B3D'ers and GAFfer's level's as they went from WIP to gold. MM nailed it with this game. I managed to get 2 solid single player levels published and a WIP up before it ended. I'm actually glad to have to wait for retail, give me a chance to catch up on Wipeout HD and flesh out ideas for my next project.
Eurogamer! (Shakes fists) There's nothing wrong with a 10 you know. You could score this game a 1 but it still won't change the fact that Media Molecule just released a genre defining title. See you guys at retail. I'll probably be in LBP 24/7 so if your not on my list add me and I'll gladly come test your levels with ya.
Eurogamer! (Shakes fists) There's nothing wrong with a 10 you know.
You could score this game a 1 but it still won't change the fact that Media Molecule just released a genre defining title. See you guys at retail. I'll probably be in LBP 24/7 so if your not on my list add me and I'll gladly come test your levels with ya.You're complaining because of a 9/10?
By all acounts its a milestone in gaming history, why shouldn´t it get a 10 when games that we have seen and played before often gets a 9 or even a 10.
And drop the arrogant remarks
For 7-8 years old, it's best to customize a small part of an existing level or template. If they start from scratch, then the level would be pretty simple.
Anything that involves automated logic and behaviour would be hard to implement because the creator may have to think like a programmer with a limited toolset. However I think people, including the Eurogamer reviewer, are envisioning LBP the wrong way for casuals. IMHO, the way for casuals gamers to use LBP is to allow them to contribute during gameplay (not during construction).
In some sense, it's like the "Cranium" of video game. The players rush towards the finishing point, solve puzzles, and shape/mold their answers using various tools along the way.
Right now, the players can move stuff, trigger switches, stamp stickers, and fall into hazards. If MM gives more verbs to the players, I think LBP will appeal even more to casuals.
I agree it is hard to rate LBP today. The goal is nebulous but it is very fun to co-op. The tools can be frustrating but once in a while, we see amazing creations from other users.
Although the builder tools are really for the tech savvy folks and gamers, there is no other game like LBP. I would have given it a 10 myself. If I were MM, I would round up all the major educational title provider, and hook them up with LBP level creators. Enabling SackBoy to play with acid, bleach, dye, explosive, circuits, musical notes, and other complex simulation systems will be a blast.
The BETA. All the issues in the Beta have been reported to MM. They are working on a launch patch.
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