So your saying TRICO doesn't use good HDR lighting/ lighting usage?
The Last Guardian (Trico, Ico 3, Shadow of the Colossus sequel, etc.) [PS4]
- Thread starter Ether_Snake
- Start date
So your saying TRICO doesn't use good HDR lighting/ lighting usage?
If all else fails, fall back on the fanboy argument, eh?!
I have not played Ico or Shadow of the Colossus. On any given day I wouldn't remember the name of the designer. I can't even remember his first name after you said Ueda.
I am purely pointing out that there is absolutely no reason for each and every game to be entirely graphically consistent, especially if a graphical contradiction is created specifically in support of a concept central to the game. The argument for complete consistency seems to be missing here, apart from "I don't like it", or perhaps "it's different to other games" (or most likely both).
MazingerDUDE
Regular
I just don't agree with your point that off-screen shots would make ugly games look fantastic. And your example is not so valid either, since UC2 uses HDR lighting and lighting strength can vary at any time. And those shots are not even the same size.
Oh sorry, didn't realise you were talking solely about lighting. I could just see more details in the direct feed one. As for high-contrast lighting, it can be good but often distracting. I think Uncharted 2 has a good mix, since it can be harsh white, but softens when you're in the sun for a while.
MazingerDUDE
Regular
BTW I don't dig Trico's overexposed lighting enviroment. But, it seems like some people do consider overexposed image with overdone bloom as 'good lighting' which I don't agree at all. Good artistic choice? maybe.. best lighting? hell no
Thats becouse one is a downscaled photo and the other a capture grab. Well perhaps not ugly in that sense, I mean more lastgen ugly but games that has lighting that isn't fully 'flat' gets enhanced. But thats beside the point that offscreens have almost always enhances lighting due to the exposure. Thing is the strength depends on camera and environment but generally people get the most amazed by offscreens, and mostly comment on the offscreen shots lighting as amazing (I am sure this forum contains a couple of 100's of such cases), go figure.
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MazingerDUDE
Regular
I downsized your shots
And here's mine in comparison (these are both HDMI capture I did myself)
Yes offscreen shots do enhance lighting, but does it make an ugly game look fantastic?
I don't think so, not in your shots especially
You lost me... are you implying I meant U2 was ugly and got enhanced to be fantastic lighting in offscreens?
No, U2 screens was just a proof of concept (could have been other games, like ingame GT5, H3, Crysis etc as offscreen photo) for how offscreens gets enhanced lighting and by no means does it have anything to do with ugly + Uncharted 2 in any sense.
That was a rhetorical question to emphasize wowsome factor of the trailer.
HD trailer is up on PSN with all its glorious "direct capture lighting", but I see that gamersyde does not have it yet. Too bad. It also explains lack of tech discussion.
*Mod snip*
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MazingerDUDE
Regular
You lost me... are you implying I meant U2 was ugly and got enhanced to be fantastic lighting in offscreens?
No, U2 screens was just a proof of concept (could have been other games, like ingame GT5, H3, Crysis etc as offscreen photo) for how offscreens gets enhanced lighting and by no means does it have anything to do with ugly + Uncharted 2 in any sense.
Nope, I'm not pursuing that you're claiming UC2 being ugly and got enhanced by off-screen shots, because it's just not true at all :smile: But you did use it as your example, and it is not valid because UC2 uses HDR lighting, and the difference could likely be more to do with the tone mapping as seen in my shots, and is nowhere near to make ugly games to look fantastic either.
I think someone suggested it here before that you can never preserve the true essence of a HDRI from simply a screengrab. You really have to observe the lighting in realtime to fully appreciate all the information.
Although a good directfeed shot would always outshine "no pun" a blurry offscreen shot IMO.
Here's an example
And the same goes for U2, directfeed shots are better anyday.
Although a good directfeed shot would always outshine "no pun" a blurry offscreen shot IMO.
Here's an example
And the same goes for U2, directfeed shots are better anyday.
MazingerDUDE
Regular
Yeah I used to take off-screen shots myself, but I don't do it anymore since I've got the capture device. I can get direct shots that look better than off-screen ones anyday
For me personally I prefer the artistic style of Team Ico over others when it comes to these types of games. I don't view games from Team Ico the same I do from ID, Epic, Isnomniac, Gorilla etc etc. If Killzone had "this" artistic style I would trash it all day long, it wouldn't fit with the type of game it is or the story it is trying to convey.
I don't think anyone here is saying The Last Guardian is perfect the way it is, just that they are more then happy to take it like this in its current artistic style then it being more realistic in a different style (if that made any sense). Because it is Team Ico, we don't presume an area in the game is lacking visually because they "can't" or are "failing" to do it; we presume it is either a design choice or an area that they haven't fully completed yet.
I will just call the graphics of Team Ico as the "Ueda Filter"; for me the Ueda filter is great for certain types of games as it does its best to provide life like images for areas that need it and then renders other objects or people in a unnatural way to make them stand out. The Last Guardian with a "killzone" look would not be the same game as if it had the Ueda filter. The Ueda filter is not supposed to make everything life like or even make simple everyday objects life like, its supposed to provide a cohesive focus for the story being conveyed.
Do I personally think they will make changes to the boy?... probably. Would I care if they didn't and left him the way he is?..wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
I don't think anyone here is saying The Last Guardian is perfect the way it is, just that they are more then happy to take it like this in its current artistic style then it being more realistic in a different style (if that made any sense). Because it is Team Ico, we don't presume an area in the game is lacking visually because they "can't" or are "failing" to do it; we presume it is either a design choice or an area that they haven't fully completed yet.
I will just call the graphics of Team Ico as the "Ueda Filter"; for me the Ueda filter is great for certain types of games as it does its best to provide life like images for areas that need it and then renders other objects or people in a unnatural way to make them stand out. The Last Guardian with a "killzone" look would not be the same game as if it had the Ueda filter. The Ueda filter is not supposed to make everything life like or even make simple everyday objects life like, its supposed to provide a cohesive focus for the story being conveyed.
Do I personally think they will make changes to the boy?... probably. Would I care if they didn't and left him the way he is?..wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
Yes please, give everyone a break!
Even if I'm not so found of the new head of the beast as it seems not to give the expression precision as the previous one did, I'm still quite sure it will be a masterpiece.
So far, UEDA's games never gave up on trendy features as multiplayer or online or coop or any "mandatory for uninspired games" features, to focus on its sole concept and the beauty or poetry anyone can experience while playing it.
OK, it's good to know that you're suppose to think the creature is weird?
Eagle? Yeah it did have chicken or bird-like feet.
But the head and ears look like a Chihuahua, while the snout looks like Joe Camel's snout and then it has horns on its head?
I didn't get around to playing SoTC but I think one of the best things about Ico was the platforming and stage design. In fact the part of the Uncharted 2 demo which looked best was when they were climbing the tower before the gunfight broke out. You had this overhead camera following their climb.
Also agree about the atmosphere of Ico because it was quiet and what music there was was very understated.
Very Old World or even otherworldly vibe compared to most other games.
Eagle? Yeah it did have chicken or bird-like feet.
But the head and ears look like a Chihuahua, while the snout looks like Joe Camel's snout and then it has horns on its head?
I didn't get around to playing SoTC but I think one of the best things about Ico was the platforming and stage design. In fact the part of the Uncharted 2 demo which looked best was when they were climbing the tower before the gunfight broke out. You had this overhead camera following their climb.
Also agree about the atmosphere of Ico because it was quiet and what music there was was very understated.
Very Old World or even otherworldly vibe compared to most other games.
They've definitely reduced the griffin's juvenile characteristics from the old trailer (it now has a longer neck, longer legs, longer beak, etc.) and seem to have traded in most of the eyeshine for irises with dilating pupils, all of which contribute to a less cute animal. I did prefer the younger look, but this does suggest the slight possibility of the griffin growing throughout the game. I have no idea how a mechanic like that would work well, though; it has a lot more issues with it than Wander's gradual corruption.
Ether_Snake
Newcomer
Actually, Udea mentionned that all the feathers are individually physics-driven since there is wind throughout the game, and even his throat movement when he swallows food is physics-driven too (it's like a soft body that stretches automatically as the object goes down his throat).
The reason for this is not only because it looks better, but it allows them to automate a whole lot of aspects that would otherwise require a lot of hand work for lesser quality.
For example, we can imagine that after the creature comes out of the water, all the feathers became heavier, so they are affected different by the physics as a result. This is very easy to do if they are already controlled by physics. Then you just have to take care of how to make them look wet on a visual level.
With the throat, it means that anything it swallows, even a character, might move as it goes down his throat (in Japanese, the game is called "The giant man-eating eagle Toriko"), and this would be all handled by the physics so in can result in all sorts of unique animations.
Very smart way to work. Can't wait to see the whole game, they are artistic and technical geniuses.
The reason for this is not only because it looks better, but it allows them to automate a whole lot of aspects that would otherwise require a lot of hand work for lesser quality.
For example, we can imagine that after the creature comes out of the water, all the feathers became heavier, so they are affected different by the physics as a result. This is very easy to do if they are already controlled by physics. Then you just have to take care of how to make them look wet on a visual level.
With the throat, it means that anything it swallows, even a character, might move as it goes down his throat (in Japanese, the game is called "The giant man-eating eagle Toriko"), and this would be all handled by the physics so in can result in all sorts of unique animations.
Very smart way to work. Can't wait to see the whole game, they are artistic and technical geniuses.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Been thinking about this game. You know what would have been REALLY interesting and unique is if you played the part of the creature.
And it was your job help the boy and facilitate what he's doing. And protect him if the need arises. It certainly would have been an interesting experience. Especially trying to interpret the boys wants/needs without there being any voice communication and having to rely entirely on the boys body language and voice intonation to decifer what it is that he wants to do.
Regards,
SB
And it was your job help the boy and facilitate what he's doing. And protect him if the need arises. It certainly would have been an interesting experience. Especially trying to interpret the boys wants/needs without there being any voice communication and having to rely entirely on the boys body language and voice intonation to decifer what it is that he wants to do.
Regards,
SB
Hmm... interesting idea. They will need to have a very sophisticated AI system to keep things challenging and interesting though. Otherwise, it's going to degenerate into a few standard "templates" and will get old fast. They will still need environment puzzles to keep the story rich and eventful.
In fact, you don't have to look at the boy's expression or voice per se. If he's gone missing, or bolted off in an unexpected direction, or did something out of character, you know something's up. I believe Ico used some of these techniques (e.g., Mute character, showing hints by wandering away).
In fact, you don't have to look at the boy's expression or voice per se. If he's gone missing, or bolted off in an unexpected direction, or did something out of character, you know something's up. I believe Ico used some of these techniques (e.g., Mute character, showing hints by wandering away).
