The hardware in Kinect 2.0 looks to be amazing where is the software to show it off?

There are much more accurate tools, which are sterile and can be held by the hand, to use than a motion controls thing in the OR.

Can be used during the surgery, and the surgeons don't need to take off the OR gloves (which is never done after surgery is started, while he was playing with motion controls the surgeon was in the middle of scrubbing) and turn around.
 
So new Kinect, 6 month delay and top 1st party dev and they are going to still pull out 6.5/10? MS should have just integrated the mic array into the console and skipped the rest. They could do the best part of the Kinect experience for few dollars instead of ballooning the BOM.
 
Well, they're making depth cameras cheap ... once the PC version are released people will find a good use for it :p
 
This review imho, really sums up my greatest worry about the kinect 2,that i had since the announcement, it's way better than kinect 1 but simply not good enough to convince me that it's a game (pun) changer.

'Kinect Sports Rivals' review: get your head in the game http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/7/5589534/kinect-sports-rivals-review

Still doesn't mean I won't get the game nor the machine but imho it's a perfect example of a evolution of an unperfect technology that still isn't perfected.
Interesting... The reviews are a mixed bag overall, but it's obvious that the tech isn't there yet, maybe.

The most interesting thing is getting the scanned face in future games, that'd be awesome.

On another note, Microsoft are thinking about installing Kinect on every notebook in the future, and also use Kinect in the so called smarthouse of the future.

http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/...ech-kinect-camera-may-be-staring-you-in-face/

It's not like they are going to spy on you. Very interested in how things pan out.

Zutto4DA-512_thumb336.jpg
 
Pad gamers - like "pro reviewers" - are terrible at understanding Kinect.

While inputs are not always recognised for Kinect games, pad inputs fail 100% of the time for potential gamers who don't want to pick up a conventional pad. And when you learn how a Kinect game wants/needs you to move to be sure you wish to initiate a command, input recognition becomes very good - it did even on Kinect 1.

Myopia has always been a problem for games journalism, fanboys and h8ers.

(And publishers)
 
Pad gamers - like "pro reviewers" - are terrible at understanding Kinect.

While inputs are not always recognised for Kinect games, pad inputs fail 100% of the time for potential gamers who don't want to pick up a conventional pad. And when you learn how a Kinect game wants/needs you to move to be sure you wish to initiate a command, input recognition becomes very good - it did even on Kinect 1.

Myopia has always been a problem for games journalism, fanboys and h8ers.

(And publishers)

I wanted to say exactly what you said yesterday, but I didn't (for some reasons). I can't blame reviewers but developers. They need to understand that many players have no idea about Kinect functionality. Moving your arms/body in a specific way is like pressing buttons on gamepad for Kinect.
 
Pad gamers - like "pro reviewers" - are terrible at understanding Kinect.

While inputs are not always recognised for Kinect games, pad inputs fail 100% of the time for potential gamers who don't want to pick up a conventional pad. And when you learn how a Kinect game wants/needs you to move to be sure you wish to initiate a command, input recognition becomes very good - it did even on Kinect 1.

Myopia has always been a problem for games journalism, fanboys and h8ers.

(And publishers)

I read similar defenses for the Sixaxis controls in Lair. Ultimately you can't blame the consumer. If something isn't natural or fun, then it is up to the engineers and developers to solve the issues. People know what bowling and tennis looks and feels like and if Rare and a new sensor can't pull it off, it is not the fault of the player.
 
That's not entirely true. Most people have a hard time hitting a tennis ball at first, but acquire the skill by social encouragement and practice. Twin stick shooters took as much getting used to for me as any other gamer new to the experience. Any skill based activity requires practice to get good.

Ideally a new experience needs to be fun/interesting to learn enough to keep people engaged long enough to get good. Some experiences are going to have a steeper learning curve that scare people off. I'm not convinced devs should only target the easy wins though, spoon feeding consumers with stuff that they are already used to. It all depends on the implementation. The ideal behind motion controls was interfaces that follow people's prior experiences and existing skillsets, making games accessible for those who haven't developed the motor skills specific to core gamers. To date, few applications have provided that AFAIK. eg. WiiTennis was a great success because of its natural interface, although people soon learnt that they could just flick the wrist to get a hit back. So although it broke down the barriers to entry, it did so by being remarkably simple with a gazillion player assists and effectively undermined the game element. Given restraints of technology, devs may find they have to have a 'do it our way, not your way' interface to provide a decent game.
 
I'm not a PC gamer in part because I have no interest in learning how to use a mouse and keyboard for input. Perhaps fault isn't the correct word but it has to be said that a big part of the appeal of motion gaming has been the idea that anyone can participate without a steep learning curve. In many ways the modern joystick is every bit as challenging as the mouse and keyboard are and for an entire generation now we've heard that motion controls are the way forward. The argument has been that there are millions of potential gamers out there who can't participate bc of the complexity of the joystick or mouse and keyboard.

To put it another way why would I invest time to learn a new way of controlling my player in a video game if the interface is going have a higher latency, prone to error and limit the range of control?
 
I read similar defenses for the Sixaxis controls in Lair.

Lair wasn't targeting padless gaming and novice gamers though. It was a clumsy retrofit with nothing to redeem it's input choices.

Kinect Sport is far more ambitious and offers far more in exchange for learning how to control the game. It's not a pad game, just as Wii Sports wasn't.

Ultimately you can't blame the consumer. If something isn't natural or fun, then it is up to the engineers and developers to solve the issues. People know what bowling and tennis looks and feels like and if Rare and a new sensor can't pull it off, it is not the fault of the player.

Most people are shit at tennis, and shit at bowling too. If Kinect Sports did 1:1 mapping people would need years of coaching to be able to approach the game. So you make adjustments and limit ranges and make the game absorb certain errors. Then some lazy and physically wretched reviewer / critic / hater complains because, like, it's totally not recognising their skills and not letting rewarding them for moving naturally.

Many reviewers don't actually understand that rule based systems need parameters to be met and input within ranges, and that pads do this a a pretty extreme way. Pads work well by being incredibly limited with what they allow as input.

That's not entirely true. Most people have a hard time hitting a tennis ball at first, but acquire the skill by social encouragement and practice. Twin stick shooters took as much getting used to for me as any other gamer new to the experience. Any skill based activity requires practice to get good.

Yep!

Ideally a new experience needs to be fun/interesting to learn enough to keep people engaged long enough to get good. Some experiences are going to have a steeper learning curve that scare people off. I'm not convinced devs should only target the easy wins though, spoon feeding consumers with stuff that they are already used to. It all depends on the implementation.

Yes, and this is an important point.

If the bar is set so low that any gesture it recognised as Super Awesome Move it limits the scope of skill levels and particular inputs that the game can reward. And if the range of motions a game treats as inputs doesn't change and feeback to them remains the same then there's no point in having more than one game.

No doubt developers can mess up, of course, and there is learning curve for developers just as there is for gamers and - unfortunately - "Pro-Gamer-Reviewers", but there needs to be a consideration of the demands on the gamer by the gamer, too.

The ideal behind motion controls was interfaces that follow people's prior experiences and existing skillsets, making games accessible for those who haven't developed the motor skills specific to core gamers. To date, few applications have provided that AFAIK. eg. WiiTennis was a great success because of its natural interface, although people soon learnt that they could just flick the wrist to get a hit back. So although it broke down the barriers to entry, it did so by being remarkably simple with a gazillion player assists and effectively undermined the game element.

Indeed. By allowing natural and known movements as a starting point, you can get a leg up on pad input. It's also worth considering that movement can also affect the way people feel in a way static pad input cannot, and using that to enhance the experience has been part of the desire to develop motion control too.

And the example about Wii Tennis is a great one. They set the bar low by limiting what they took as input and limiting how the inputs they took were applied to the simulation. A more accurate representation of the players movement would result in people complaining because the game made it clear how bad at tennis and they actually are, and how little fun they were going to have.

Given restraints of technology, devs may find they have to have a 'do it our way, not your way' interface to provide a decent game.

Absolutely. There will have to be an element of this is all motion control games, and people have to prepared to consider this or we'll just end up staying with what we have.

To put it another way why would I invest time to learn a new way of controlling my player in a video game if the interface is going have a higher latency, prone to error and limit the range of control?

Because you might have types of fun that you otherwise wouldn't?
 
http://www.edge-online.com/news/can...l-spencer-phil-harrison-and-more-to-find-out/

I don't think Xbox One needs Kinect to ship with all SKUs - I think that it'll do fine as an option + add on as long as the dash integration is good and there is a steady supply of decent games for it, but this comment:

Peter Lolyneux said:
It feels like an unnecessary add-on to me. Maybe it’s because we’re in England, and it doesn’t really use the TV stuff, but it feels more and more like a joke. My son and I sit there saying random things at it, and it doesn’t work.

This actually hurts my head.
 
Kinect just isn't a good technology imo. Maybe in a few years. But not now. The sooner MS learns this, the better for X1 and its games.
 
Kinect Sport is far more ambitious and offers far more in exchange for learning how to control the game. It's not a pad game, just as Wii Sports wasn't.
I think they overlooked the cardinal rule for games control: Easy to learn, difficult to master.
 
Because you might have types of fun that you otherwise wouldn't?

Then what exactly is the criticism of the reviews? These are people who played the game who in some cases didn't find the game play mechanics interesting or fun... Not understanding the issue with the reviews??? To be fair the issue might have as much to do with the events and activities as it does with the controls. I know the review I read was critical of competitions for example.
 
http://www.edge-online.com/news/can...l-spencer-phil-harrison-and-more-to-find-out/

I don't think Xbox One needs Kinect to ship with all SKUs - I think that it'll do fine as an option + add on as long as the dash integration is good and there is a steady supply of decent games for it, but this comment:



This actually hurts my head.
Well, Molyneaux has always liked to show how ahead of the times and forward thinking he is, and having him not being keen on Kinect is quite odd. Voice commands work reasonably well for me.

Everything needs maturing on Kinect. Even the new facial recognition technology, they could make it to accept masks.


So you can create an otaku version of yourself to play in RPG games, like this girl.

http://www.odditycentral.com/news/a...ukraines-real-life-anime-girl.html#more-31155

Kinect just isn't a good technology imo. Maybe in a few years. But not now. The sooner MS learns this, the better for X1 and its games.
That's why I think Kinect should be always bundled with the console. It is like Spot or a tablet that MS had in 2001. Back then it was a failure, but look where tablets are now.
 
Well of course people who paid for it don't want it dropped. Did they do a survey of potential buyers with a trade-off in price? The fact that dropping Kinect is a headline tells you all you need to know.
 
Sports Rivals didnt end up good either.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/kinect-sports-rivals

Kinect is a great tech demonstrator worth looking at from pure interest and to design possibilities and ideas out of technical curiosity. But when it comes to gaming it doesnt translate well in gameplay. I am not sure its the capabilities the real issue here. Its the form of control itself.

There are things that plain work better with a button press, and use of physical input. The player isnt confined by the limitations of his body and surrounding with a controller. It bypasses those limitations and ironically it feels more natural. Your character can have crazy feats all with a press of buttons

One of the things that make gaming fun is that you "can" do stuff you cant do in real life and "you" are placed in a fictional situation. Body detection implies that your real life abilities are translated faithfully in the game and thus the game concept should be build around those abilities. In cases where a Kinect game tried to bypass this, motion detection felt unnecessary or unnatural. Such as leaning to make your character walk in a game. Especially when we tend to lean unconsciously anyways just to feel comfortable and the game doesnt know your intentions.

It wont feel right to make tiny jumps in my room in order to execute a double jump or a somersault in game. It will also be very tiring to kneel like a cool metal guitarist to do the fancy ground slide from Vanguish.

They should start combining body detection and the controller together
 
This is exactly the kind of problem I'm talking about. Pad gamers thinking in terms of pad controls mapped to Kinect, and coming up with examples like doing the Vanquish slide in person not being as workable as on a pad.

I mean, does that really need saying? Do people actually think this is what Kinect is supposed to be for?

And a pad only feels more natural to people who have become accustomed to a pad. To people who have never picked up a pad there is nothing less natural than trying to use a Dual Shock or 360 pad. Kinect sports or Wii Sports are a thousand times more natural.

And Kinect Sports Rivals is in good company with it's 'low' score. The incredible Wii Sports only scored 76, even with the traditional Nintendo and Miyamoto love-up that we usually have to endure:

http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/wii-sports

Wii Sports, an innovative game that allowed everyone to play against everyone, and that entertained more people than any other game last generation, got rated down by "pro reviewers" with a pad only mentality. Just think of all the generic, inaccessible (to none 'core gamer'), recycled garbage that automatically scores into the 80's on metacritric. God. Damn.

These are the wrong people to be judging the value of games and technology that by that is by its very nature not pandering to what they want, what they know and what they think they are 1337 at.

And yes, Kinect + controller should have been the standard for many games, but this would require a different controller than the standard pad for optimal integration, and we can't have that, can we? The stagnation of game pads is another depressing subject, but a different one I should leave at the door.

Publishers, 'gamers', reviewers, and metacritic are all tied together is an unhealthy knot of familiar expectations. Humbug. Humbug I say.
 
And Kinect Sports Rivals is in good company with it's 'low' score.

Generally favorable reviews based on 51 Critics
wii sports
Positive: 31 out of 51
Mixed: 20 out of 51
Negative:0

Mixed or average reviews based on 29 Critics
kinect sports
Positive: 7 out of 29
Mixed: 21 out of 29
Negative: 1

I dont know if youve followed game reviews as long as I have >30 years
they dont really rate 0->100 but more 50->100. 70 is about average
(just checked on xbone 71% is the median score), one game is 24.6% Fighter Within and all the rest are above 50%
 
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