L. Scofield
Veteran
Particles in KZ2 have very low detail, add to that the whole blurring/add noise to the screen and then there's not much pixelation to see.
C2 goes for a very clean look, which in turn lets the flaws show more.
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C2 goes for a very clean look, which in turn lets the flaws show more.
But not all particle effects. Also comparing to latest KZ game looking at one of the latest KZ3 videos (singleplayer) showing the fire effect and at beginning smoke effect. Smoke where you can discern each particle sprite and see it rotate, pure COD4 particle quality at best. Not all has that quality but quite some do. As for persistency yes though KZ3 seems to have reduced it quite a lot and not all effects had great persistency anyway and KZ2 had not persistency for every effect. But I do understand it has greater potential for particle persistency due to how low-res they are and for many effects quite moderate/low particle amount used to form the effect.
As for in motion Crysis 2 console particles looks mostly great to so dont see much of a problem. See latest video.
Exactly. Now replace "full-res particle" with "low-res particle" and we have another contender.
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0851.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0411.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0661.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0991.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0961.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-0841.jpg
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1-2051.jpg
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It isn't limited to blur and noise, which hides barely anything. You can even see in the first shot above that there are no large unsightly edges, but just a small white outline around objects. Killzone isn't a unique case of course, I think joker mentioned applying a post process to clean up low res particles in PS3 games.
The actual detail on the particles is limited though..not much of an issue for smoke but doesn't look too good up close with the more fiery effects.
Thats why I always thought RDR is such a marvel on consoles.It has almost everything you can put in console game and its still on very high level considering its multiplatform open world game.I mean...From textures,to some of the best animations this gen.To lighting,volumetric sun shafts,pretty neat density of trees,bushes and grass,fantastic physics and world interaction,one of the best water physics i have ever seen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgt5Pic27dY),weather effects that make most games fell last gen and list goes on and on and on...Its really a game that gets overlooked.
I still haven't found more impressive game running on those old consoles than this gens R* games.They feel like living breathing world in comparison to everything else.
I still haven't found more impressive game running on those old consoles than this gens R* games.They feel like living breathing world in comparison to everything else.
(The other members posts where removed so no quote)
I think also that it is important to take note that in a newly multiplayer demo animations might act strange due to lag. This been the case with C2 and I to thought it was horrible. But seeing recent demo gameplay videos with no lag problems shows quite good ragdoll (and I who thought initially that they hadn't even ragdolls due to lag!).
Another thing is draw distances in games. You've got several types ranging from skybox to skybox+geometry and plain geometry and also interactible or non interactible. Seeing the recent C2 trailer shows at 1:14 and 1:20 very long draw distance though mostly likely not interactible part. But neverthless in the long draw distance class.
I think also that it is important to take note that in a newly multiplayer demo animations might act strange due to lag. This been the case with C2 and I to thought it was horrible. But seeing recent demo gameplay videos with no lag problems shows quite good ragdoll (and I who thought initially that they hadn't even ragdolls due to lag!).
Another thing is draw distances in games. You've got several types ranging from skybox to skybox+geometry and plain geometry and also interactible or non interactible. Seeing the recent C2 trailer shows at 1:14 and 1:20 very long draw distance though mostly likely not interactible part. But neverthless in the long draw distance class.
L. Scofield
Veteran
Also they're using death animations + ragdoll.
Well imho but animations & texture not seems to me so incredible... & about the density, well R tech it's sure great in some aspects (panoramic, smoothness of pop in & so on) but the number of objects in the screen to me not seem so unbelievable, it use smartly every tech which have... assassin's creed, for example, has a lot more crown & objects both on the same time on the screen...
I would love to try RDR, really, and I probably will. However I've never played a Rockstar game, so I had never been hyped.
That water is just mind-boggling.
Same ,here , never wanted to play their mob/gangsta stuff (not my cup at all ),but i loved RDR .
BTW ,no need for any physics to make such water,as good looking it its.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I dunno... i can't remember seeing much grass or trees in that game at all!!! It was primarily desert and wasteland... It wasn't all that impressive to me.
I'm with Assurdum in that i felt AC and AC2 were much more impressive games on consoles (flaming loved their metal shaders and the way the lighting hit the sides of buildings).
Also, sunshafts are so overated
There were lots of areas in RDR full of trees, this one area in particular called Tall trees was particularly impressive. And grass was pretty abundant in RDR, even deserted areas had lots of dry grass and shrubs, and then there were also areas that were the grasslands.
Oh yea
Very cool video, love it when devs do things like this. Wondering why they titled it "Before and After" when there was no comparison to anything before or after.
Also didn't realize Bungie won the VES award in 2008. Would have never expected it considering how many people complained about that game graphically.
(((interference)))
Veteran
I don't think it counts for much, they were up against the likes of Kinectimals, Starcraft 2 and Need for Speed, no God of War 3 or Red Dead Redemption.
But Reach does look absolutely stunning if you have ever watched even a MP match on say Anchor 9 in theater mode. This clearly shows the biggest problem by far is the lack of proper aliasing which interferes with the clean visual style they're aiming for. (does theatre mode add anything else? I think it adds DoF as well)
Can't they use MLAA on 360? It does such a fantastic job in KZ3.
But one thing it has over Crysis 2 and KZ is the top notch particle and weapon effects, possibly the best on consoles.
Alucardx23
Regular
Frostbite 2 engine real-time radiosity - SIGGRAPH 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=foXVF7q035Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=foXVF7q035Y
Alucardx23
Regular
This part made me think in what the Crytek engine offers on consoles, not only from the visual standpoint but the development standpoint also.
We’ve been working with traditional lightmaptechniques at Dice, and even if the results can look amazing in the end, it was just a very painful way of creating content . It’s not unusual that artists spend hours waiting for lightmaprenders to finish. So we thought, if artist can spend their time working on actually lighting the game instead of waiting for lightmaps to compute, then perhaps the end results will look more interesting?
Another main argument is to support for dynamic environments. Video games are becoming more dynamic, so if we change the lighting in the game, we should also be able to update the bounce light dynamically.
Yes! This is such a key point in that having it all realtime saves the artists so much time and makes their lives easier which can result in better product even if strictly speaking a baked approach could give better results. I always felt the pain of artists when they would work on something, get in their groove, then abruptly have to stop and switch to doing something else while they waited for a tool to generate all the pre-calculated data so they could finally see what they had created, rinse and repeat ad infinitum. One has to wonder how many man hours of artist time would be saved using a fully realtime approach like Crytek is offering.
Hmm, you sure? I've played with the KZ3 beta and their anti aliasing method seems inferior to regular msaa. I'd say their method is better than what's used in Crysis 2 on 360 (I hate the ghosting), but both software anti aliasing approaches seem to fail to me in that neither exceeds what old hardware msaa offers, even as low as 4x msaa.
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