The Big Forza 2 Thread *

Two questions:

I downloaded the Nissan pack and I cant find the vehicles in career. I went to the Nissan dealership but I couldnt find it(?) :cry:

Also, is it possible to race the same cup over and over again to win the vehicle prize or was that a one shot deal? :p
 
Two questions:

I downloaded the Nissan pack and I cant find the vehicles in career. I went to the Nissan dealership but I couldnt find it(?) :cry:

Also, is it possible to race the same cup over and over again to win the vehicle prize or was that a one shot deal? :p

Personnally I bought the 2007 Fairlady Z…

No car price is for one time, but you can remake race and rewin the Crs, it's more interesting than a car you sell 100 Cr ;)
 
No, high RPM gives you more power too.
Torque doesn't help you win a race either. Power is the only thing that matters. The reason diesels are better off the line is that when starting from idle, they get near their peak power quickly.

If your racing, though, there's no reason to be driving anywhere near idling RPM.

No, but you can win some time if you don't have to shift gears. And that's what a diesel's linear power distro can give you. On some tracks, it can give you an advantage.

Then there's the better fuel consumption, too.

Well anyway, Diesels will get there, I'm convinced of that.

In the meantime, having gotten a 360, I can now try this game myself. I already got the demo, but found that a bit off-putting though.

Can anyone tell me in which ways the final game is better than the demo? Some parts of the grip on these cars is horribly wrong, imho. It's still fun, mind you, but it doesn't seem right. I'll probably give it a serious go though anyway, but I think to get any enjoyment out of it I'll need that wheel.
 
Well anyway, Diesels will get there, I'm convinced of that.

Not really. Diesels will never compete, simply because diesel is diesel. The only times you see diesel competing today is turbocharged diesels vs naturally aspired gasoline cars. Which is ridiculous.


Some parts of the grip on these cars is horribly wrong, imho.
Got any actual specific grip issue? Or is it just your used to GT's super-sticky-grip?
 
I've moved on to GT:HD remember? You should too. ;)

Anyway, yeah, I have some specific issues. I wanted to wait until I got a wheel and the full game to confirm, but too often I find that in 3rd gear (all assists off), even with a feathery touch of the R2 trigger, the car tends to start losing the back, even with the slowest car class and even cars like the BMW. So then I test the same spot and not pressing the accellerator at all, and the same still happens. In another spot, all of a sudden the car loses grip and drifts off the track. No warning of screeching tires, no real logic, it's just gone.

Also, I can't count how many times in my few 3 lap attempts the AI has tipped me at the rear of the car, sending me off spinning or at the very least giving me a time penalty for my best lap.

Finally, the graphics look much worse than I thought. But the final game got 4xmsaa or something patched in after a few weeks or so, right? Some parts of this game look GT4 quality, sometimes the lighting is worse than that. Anyway, I'm reserving my full judgment obviously until I got the final game and the wheel, but so I've been really doubting if I should even bother getting the game at all.

Well at least the Integra, an FF car, felt decent. If anything, that should make it fun. And in general, I do like the time penalty system for when you get off-track. I'm not really into modding my car, but I'm sure it will be fun for online racing to have cars that people can recognise. And online racing is generally fun anyway, especially with good competition. So that should make it worth it anyway, even if the initial problems I've had so far remain in the final version.
 
IAnyway, yeah, I have some specific issues. I wanted to wait until I got a wheel and the full game to confirm, but too often I find that in 3rd gear (all assists off), even with a feathery touch of the R2 trigger, the car tends to start losing the back, even with the slowest car class and even cars like the BMW. So then I test the same spot and not pressing the accellerator at all, and the same still happens. In another spot, all of a sudden the car loses grip and drifts off the track. No warning of screeching tires, no real logic, it's just gone.

That's where the telemetry comes in handy. There's no need to guess. Maybe you're braking too hard and too late and the weight isn't transferring back quickly enough when you let off the brakes? This game is very picky about how you make that transition from braking force to steering force into the turn and from steering force to acceleration force out. I found, though because of this, that when I got it all right and executed a perfect turn that it was very rewarding. When you're locked in on a car-track combo it is an amazing feeling, especially with the wheel.

One advantage to the full version is you can swap out those stock tires. First best mod on almost all my rides.

Lastly, the wheel doesn't make this game a different experience. It enhances what is already there, but if you find the game to be lacking without it I don't think it will make the difference. Unless you are considering other racers on 360 that you will be using the wheel for, I would wait until you're sold on Forza 2 before dropping the money for it.
 
That's where the telemetry comes in handy. There's no need to guess. Maybe you're braking too hard and too late and the weight isn't transferring back quickly enough when you let off the brakes? This game is very picky about how you make that transition from braking force to steering force into the turn and from steering force to acceleration force out. I found, though because of this, that when I got it all right and executed a perfect turn that it was very rewarding. When you're locked in on a car-track combo it is an amazing feeling, especially with the wheel.

Yep, that's the thing I love, and which is why I'm interested in this game - it should in theory be my favorite game on the 360, but because racing has been my most favorite genre for such a long time, I think I'll generally look at racing games more harshly than most people.

So my problem with Forza 2 is very easily illustrated by comparing the Integra Type R FF car, with the Mazda RX-8 or BMW M3 FR car. FR cars obey different physics rules in this game from FF cars, and these rules are descriptive and rather loosely based on physics. They don't take physics as their basis, but instead there's a set of descriptive rules that say that a rear-wheel drive car, no matter how well balanced it is, will lose grip first at the rear tires. This is fine, as long as this is 100% dependent on the accellerative force of these rear tires, as only when used in accelleration should they affect rear-end grip in that way, and even then only if the car has oversteering tendencies rather than understeering (not all FR cars oversteer!). But this is not fully the case in Forza. The parameter for this is still present even if you don't accellerate at all. Hence my conclusion that FF and FR cars obey different laws of physics. If you then take a 4WD car, you can again see how the parameters have been shifted a little. I think it is quite obvious when you notice it. There's also very clearly a variable for going up or down a hill for instance, but while these are good and essential inclusions in the model, the "FR car always breaks out at the rear" rule is exaggerated too much and the parameter doesn't reach zero soon enough. The parameter shouldn't have been necessary in the first place.

That's my initial conclusion, and bear in mind that's only after a few play-sessions and only based on the demo, but I think its a sound conclusion. It also explains why in 3rd gear, at speeds and angles that should not induce oversteer in most of the C class cars, you still lose the rear so often.

If you're interested enough, go ahead and test the Type R FF versus any FR car that has similar specs, and I think you'll see what I mean. But of course, if you disagree and/or I'm really missing something, I'll be happy to learn the error of my ways. ;)

One advantage to the full version is you can swap out those stock tires. First best mod on almost all my rides.

I generally love stock tires, as they give me a good frame of reference vis-a-vis reality, where I only ever really drive stock tires. ;)

Lastly, the wheel doesn't make this game a different experience. It enhances what is already there, but if you find the game to be lacking without it I don't think it will make the difference. Unless you are considering other racers on 360 that you will be using the wheel for, I would wait until you're sold on Forza 2 before dropping the money for it.

I think you underestimate the power of a good wheel. It makes a big difference. Generally, the better the simulation part of the game, the bigger the difference. One of the things you just don't get from a game otherwise is being able to exactly feel when the car has tipped back up and is ready to lean over to the other side without objecting, which is essential feedback in things like chicanes. Also, I can see that the wheel should make a difference in this game in terms of laptimes because it does punish you for steering too hard. And because of that, the kind of precision steering that a wheel affords you, is definitely worth it. True, it probably wont fix all problems, but it should make them easier to cope with, especially for me, as I've found it hard to find a lot of fun in driving games without a wheel in these last 14 years.
 
So my problem with Forza 2 is very easily illustrated by comparing the Integra Type R FF car, with the Mazda RX-8 or BMW M3 FR car. FR cars obey different physics rules in this game from FF cars, and these rules are descriptive and rather loosely based on physics. They don't take physics as their basis, but instead there's a set of descriptive rules that say that a rear-wheel drive car, no matter how well balanced it is, will lose grip first at the rear tires. This is fine, as long as this is 100% dependent on the accellerative force of these rear tires, as only when used in accelleration should they affect rear-end grip in that way, and even then only if the car has oversteering tendencies rather than understeering (not all FR cars oversteer!). But this is not fully the case in Forza. The parameter for this is still present even if you don't accellerate at all.

The only time I had a "WTF?" moment where I lost traction for no apparent reason a view of the replay showed me that I had one tire stray off the track. This is one area that they really didn't even try to model accurately and there is a razor thin line between you getting a nice little bump from the curbing on the side of the track and completely losing it. So there was an explanation. There was an adjustment period where I had to come to grips with the driving model and learn how to properly interpret the feedback the game was giving me. Once I got through that I found that the cars behaved pretty predictably. (except the Porches. I still haven't got a handle on those. :???: ). I didn't see what you described (the FR cars having the back end sliding out) unless I either tried to turn and brake hard at the same time or got on the gas too early.


I think you underestimate the power of a good wheel. It makes a big difference. Generally, the better the simulation part of the game, the bigger the difference. One of the things you just don't get from a game otherwise is being able to exactly feel when the car has tipped back up and is ready to lean over to the other side without objecting, which is essential feedback in things like chicanes. Also, I can see that the wheel should make a difference in this game in terms of laptimes because it does punish you for steering too hard. And because of that, the kind of precision steering that a wheel affords you, is definitely worth it. True, it probably wont fix all problems, but it should make them easier to cope with, especially for me, as I've found it hard to find a lot of fun in driving games without a wheel in these last 14 years.

I don't at all underestimate the value of a good wheel. The lack of a FF wheell for the original XBOX was why I never bothered to buy one at all. I'm telling you this from direct experience with this game and the MS wheel. It doesn't "fix" anything (I would argue that anything needs to be fixed, but I digress..). It enhances what is already there. And I can promise you that if you don't think this game feels right with the pad you will really not think it feels right with the wheel. It is actually much more difficult to modulate the gas with the pedals than the triggers of the pad. You think you are seeing oversteer, now? :p

The positive thing is that at least in the retail game the sensitivity/deadzone settings are adjustable so you can tweak this to your liking.

I like the way this game controls better with the wheel for all the reasons you stated. But I like the way it controls with the pad, too. I would be shocked to find that you could go from not liking the way the game feels with the pad to liking the way it feels with the wheel. And BTW I thought the gamepad controls were quite well done, actually.
 
Arwin, please to known you test FM2 ;)
I have one tick for you… lost the "GT driving feel", like I do!
First time I drive on FM2 I always have the rear who come the front with FF cars:D
To stop with I have to relearn all my driving feel on console, cause GT give me "bads" practices…
You rely have also to known the track and not also the type of corner but the less bump on the track ;)
Give time to the game …

In the final game you have adaptive MSAA 4X, so in intense scene 0 MSSA, but for the car you don't have AA on "the reflexion zone", so if you drive with you car on screen it be some disappointment. FM2 was not "all in the car graphic" power, it's more "all in the course feeling";).
 
Don't worry too much about my 'GT Driving Feel'. I may be a big GT fan, but I try to reference reality as well as all the other games I've played (lots of SimBin and such).

Mind you I do like the game, and I think I can live with it, but I thought there was quite simply something wrong, and now I think I have found it.

Don't blame it on my GT-fandom, please. Try and see if I am right, simply by trying the Integra Type R, and then the BMW M3 or Mazda RX8 or anything else FR. If you don't see what I mean, then either they tweaked the issue in the final game, or will probably never be able to explain this to you. ;)

If I am right though, it does explain almost every other complaint I have seen on the issue of grip in Forza 2, not just my own complaints.

I will probably get the full game anyway, even if it is just for reference purposes. ;) But I think that with the difficulty of driving with no assists (as I always do, because I just think it is fun), even if it isn't quite right, that doesn't mean I won't enjoy it in an online race. ;)

It does mean though that I may try and annoy people by winning some of the class races online in an FF car. ;)
 
I have Limited edition getting me going for a week, but I am realising that when I press something to load (ie in time trials you finish race and come back to the list) there is some sort of delay (freezing etc) for like a millisecond. Is this normal thing or did i scratch my disc that is causing this?

By the way, I am learning quickly in this game :smile: Hope to play on Live!
 
Never mind, Twin Ring Motegi is coming as DLC tomorrow!

I don't know when I will be bored of this game, I am hoping they keep making more new tracks!
 
1 track for $7.50 USD is a joke.

Especially when the original game was supposed to have 12 tracks, and was downgraded to 8. And it shows in teh career mode, as you're stuck doing the same races over and over and over and over....this game CLEARLY was designed with 12 tracks in mind, and then had to swap them out at the last minute when they downgraded to only 8.

At this rate it would cost $90 to get the full game as originally planned and designed.

I would've expected Turn 10/MS to release the original 4 tracks that were cut, and FIX the career mode, for something reasonable like $10.

Instead they release one measly track, for 15% of the cost of the entire game.

I won't be buying this out of principle, and I really hope the sales are extremely lackluster.
 
Not too sure, I don't think it's been released yet.

According to Che they've already reduced the price...before even being released!

Official Turn 10 comment:

Hey everyone. After some back and forth with our marketing folks, I've managed to convince all parties to lower the price of our upcoming DLC track Twin Ring Motegi to 400 MS points.

I just want you guys to know that the main impetus for this is directly related to the feedback we received here on the forums - particularly the concern that 600 MS points ($7.50) requires the user to purchase a block of 1000 MS points ($12.50) from Live Marketplace, whereas 400 MS points ($5.00) only requires the user to buy a 500 MS point package ($6.25) from Marketplace.

All in all, seeing as Motegi is the first DLC track we've ever done, going through this discussion has been educational for everyone. As I've said before, the goal of DLC isn't so much a revenue generator (production costs usually far outweigh your return) but it's more of a way to keep the community engaged in your game. We wanted to make sure that we keep our eye on that goal.

Twin Ring Motegi (which includes 4 ribbons) will go live on Marketplace this Friday (10/26/07) at 9AM GMT worldwide. Motegi should show up in our scoreboard section on FM.net sometime today, and if you got the FM2 auto-update this morning, you should be able to see it in-game as well.

We're also going to launch a comprehensive Motegi track guide to go with the release at the end of today or early tomorrow morning. Look for it!

Thanks, and happy racing!

So it's now $5, that's a little more reasonable. I might pick it up if it integrates itself into the Career mode.
 
I would definitely buy it, but I would like to see being part of addition achievements. ;) I am hungry of Gscores, I am only on 70! (Tag was born 3 days ago. :LOL:)
 
Back
Top