The Big Forza 2 Thread *

Sigh...

As much as I like this game, it's network code utterly dies on high latency connection like mine.
It's made even 1vs1 games with my friends (in NZ or Aus) very, very difficult. Online games with others are pretty damn well impossible. Everyone warps around up to ~40m at a time. If some one warps backwards (or forwards) they can crash into you, sending you flying. It's a bit of a joke really.
I got warp-crashed by someone right at the start of a nurburgring race. Set me back 1200m once I finally got going again.

If only they would show a) ping and b) region.

:(

But at least it does allow for some amusing photo opportunities.
 
Can't say I ever noticed them, maybe they are always 'low' or something... Then again I'm still on a damned SD TV.

Not being able to check the gamercard of the host is a pain too.
I usually just join the first game that will actually let me join... Because... well... most don't.
 
There is a guy in FM2 community who has created a tuning calculator -there's also a Forza 1 version-, which is, in my opinion, the best contribution to Forza community.

I find it admirable that he felt ill and have suffered from exhaustion while, a year ago, trying to complete the first version.

A smart guy who perfectly knows what he is talking about. i.e.:

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/permalink/331570/327802/ShowThread.aspx#327802

His nick is feuerdog, one of the Top 200 FM1 players in the world. He uses his calculator to tune cars and, as you can see, it works like a charm. I can also verify this personally.

Some people is helping him with compact versions of this tool, featuring imperial and metrics system. My favourite is the flash version:

http://www.ondaground.net/flash/fm2/ (just BRILLIANT)

Web applications
http://www.croisened.com/
http://fm2calc.ruinedmylife.com/
http://www.redshirt1701.com/Forza2/suspensioninput.cfm

Excel spreadsheets:
http://www.shemwhistler.com/forza/
Click to expand...

Here is the link to his guide;

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/1/331570/ShowThread.aspx

I've also made my little contribution to the thread with a brief guide on Gear ratios.

Good evening.
 
In Forza 2, some RWD Porsches are a totally different experience, regarding the handling. Therefore, there's also a variant (by someone whose nick is Carn) of this wonderful and essential tool, which is focused on and designed for some specific Porsche models, *slow in fast out* type of cars (997 GT3, GT3 Cup, GT3 RSR, 996 GT3).

Link:

http://www.recoil.co.za/stuff/fm2/pcalc_v1.0.xls

This concluding tip depends on your driving style but it might be also good for some Ferraris.
 
Cyan said:
In Forza 2, some RWD Porsches are a totally different experience, regarding the handling. Therefore, there's also a variant (by someone whose nick is Carn) of this wonderful and essential tool, which is focused on and designed for some specific Porsche models, *slow in fast out* type of cars (997 GT3, GT3 Cup, GT3 RSR, 996 GT3).

Link:

http://www.recoil.co.za/stuff/fm2/pcalc_v1.0.xls

This concluding tip depends on your driving style but it might be also good for some Ferraris.
Click to expand...

There is a ton of 40% Front ferraris so should work nice ;)
 
phat said:
Another way to think about the effect of unsprung mass is to consider a wheel going over a narrow but sharp bump. A suspension with zero unsprung mass will follow the bump perfectly, and the displacement vs time plot of the suspension will only show a narrow bump.
Click to expand...
No it won't, and that's what I'm having trouble communicating to you.

Zero unsprung mass still needs dampening, or the car will bounce endlessly. The solution to the differential equation governing the wheel's motion is an exponential decay whose time constant is determined by the spring stiffness and dampening. If you add mass into the equation, then for any reasonable set of parameters (mass, stiffness, dampening) you will have an overdamped system for the wheel. This also has a solution of an exponential decay (well it's a tad more complicated, but I'll explain it if you want), and the constant is only weakly dependent on the mass. You will not see visible difference in body upset by increasing the unsprung mass.

What do you want? A MATLAB simulation? Some code from me illustrating the difference in a car sim? I'm explaining it to you in terms of math and physics, and you're countering with handwaving arguments.

Unsprung mass does not increase the equivalent stiffness. You may feel more of a bump, but it won't be many times different, and you will not see it from a camera. The "increased damping needed" is not proportional to the mass. You do not have zero dampening for zero unspung mass or double it for double the unsprung mass, or else the car would behave badly.

It may be that Turn10 did not model the motion of the wheels correctly, though I still have no proof of it other than your word that you can measure 8 inches of displacement and identify perfect contact in a span of 17 milliseconds. :rolleyes: Nonetheless, wheel mass will still not visibly affect the car motion unless it's a monster truck or some equally ridiculous extreme case.
 
Mintmaster said:
What do you want? A MATLAB simulation? Some code from me illustrating the difference in a car sim? I'm explaining it to you in terms of math and physics, and you're countering with handwaving arguments.
Click to expand...

The paper I linked is hardly handwaving, and contradicts pretty much everything you've said about unsprung mass and body motion. The paper is laying out results for practical car parameters, so you can't really dismiss it by saying that its "increased stiffness" result is only noticeable at unrealistic extremes.

It may be that Turn10 did not model the motion of the wheels correctly, though I still have no proof of it other than your word that you can measure 8 inches of displacement and identify perfect contact in a span of 17 milliseconds. :rolleyes: Nonetheless, wheel mass will still not visibly affect the car motion unless it's a monster truck or some equally ridiculous extreme case.
Click to expand...

Turn10's modelling of what appears to be zero unsprung mass (or unsprung mass that is very very wrong) is an "equally ridiculous extreme case".

BTW, the replay mode has a frame-step mode that does allow you to see wheel displacement deltas frame-to-frame.

Anyway, this is my last post on unsprung mass on this thread. You are free to have the last word if you wish.

Phat
 
nintenho said:
you mean did they physically connect and disconnect their 360 to the internet or did they just do a match where everybody is from around the world?
Click to expand...

No, I think if you disconnect your ethernet, you live the xboxlive and don't reconnect you to the party.
It's more problems with the type of connection and also qualities (ping, far from the DSLAM, etc…) who create the lags, and don't need to be very far (you can be at 10 km of the other and have a total different quality in your ADSL connection) from the other. And propably that some people didn't adjust the xboxlive in fonction of their connection's quality.
The presence of a router with NAT can create some problem.
 
oh, I don't understand these things very much but if it's just transmitting the player's input, they're probably trying to do something wrong because a normal quickrace should bring up the people closest to you or with the best connections.
 
Its quite simple to "make" lag like that, just turn on bittorrent, or anything else that uses a lot of upload power.

oh and matcmaking on xbl is based on location not so much connection speed.
 
nintenho said:
I know this is probably faked by people trying to do the laggiest possible game but this would be awesome online.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2a6...en-gamer.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=96682
Click to expand...

No thats pretty common actually. You probably just have the fortune of a good connection and local games. See I have no idea who I'm connecting to, often it's someone literally on the other side of the world. 800+ ping isn't out of the question. (and it's peer to peer too, not client server). In fact I've yet to hear an NZ/AUS accent.

If someone gets a drop out for a few seconds, the game has no idea how to predict their movement anymore.. Then it gets reestablished and the car gets 'updated'. Unfortunately their collision detection code can then get messed up, as the updating car can move very fast.

It's not like most other games, they have to actually have predict where players are driving. So if an update comes through that was sent 100ms ago, the car needs to be updated to a position 100ms after the update. It's very smart, and when it works it's really been amazingly good, but it doesn't handle high ping very well at all.
 
Just thought I'd post this pic (not my car) but it is completely awesome! :p

6873bqx.jpg
 
A duck with a jaw??? :???:

And I just want to point out that the full-bright additive reflection on the floor really bugs me. What artist gave that the go-ahead? A lot of games could look better just by the artists and developers actually changing things when they don't look right to improve them! You only need look at it, see it's wrong, and make a small change to improve it no end. Like repeating textures. There's a vid of Sega Rally with the worst repeating texture I've seen in ages on the roadside. That shouldn't be allowed to pass through the development process and end up in the game!
 
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