The Big Forza 2 Thread *

[Capeta]

One of the coolest features from FM1 was the custom paint jobs.

 

[Nesh]

300 cars doesn't sound too bad at all. I was wondering about the Ferrari's though because I thought they were being licensed by Polyphony for GTHD and therefore would not appear elsewhere (I think this was the case before). Whatever the case though, I personally am not a fan of Ferrari's so it hardly matters that much. I prefer the homegrown cars

Indeed it doesnt. I was worried about that but it sounds great that they reached that number.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

The wheelbase side panels needs better meshing or more polygons IMO...

 

[Hardknock]

I don't particularly like these new shots. Not very impressive IMO. I would like to see more of the environments to get more of a feel.

Lighting was greatly improved! though aliasing is simply absent from this shots..photomode ftw

I see aliasing in these shots.

 

[Mmmkay]

I see aliasing in these shots.

You probably see aliasing caused by the hideous jpeg compression ratios used by IGN.

 

[Inane_Dork]

...and sleeve your bottom end for endurance.

Kinky. L-b must be close by.

 

[Mintmaster]

Trust me, you don't know how much fun and excitement damage modelling adds to the race until your balls deep on your last lap, with a screwed up car, battling every inch of the way to the finish line and some guy right on your tail, it's very very fun.

Yeah, all these people saying damage means nothing because they don't crash are full of it. No way that they can all play hundreds of laps without brushing the wall, grass, other cars, etc.

It just immerses you so much more because you know you can't take any risks or else your race could be over. Of course, you have to model damage properly for that. Very few devs will make cars as frail as they really are.

 

[NovemberMike]

The damage doesn't need to be perfect. It just needs to be enough that it rewards people for playing skilfully. In GT3, I remember the best way to win was to use a car with 1600hp and absolutely no turning, accelerate until I crashed into a wall and then reorient the car and repeat. Hopefully this will make that impractical.

 

[Crayon]

Lol, it's an H22 prelude swap in a 1600lb CRX...ya traction is an 'issue', it works ok as long as you never ever ever give it full throttle!

The only problem is, with all the slippage and redlining, the engine is usually toast by the 3rd lap. It will be sweet if they allow you to get stronger rods, forged pistons, and sleeve your bottom end for endurance.

The guts of an H22A are forged from the factory. And they are sleeved and closed deck from the factory as well. This is what allows big power to be made out of the engine. Unfortunatly, with it's inferior geometry, it's not that much more (power) than a much smaller and lighter B series.

With a b18, youre CRX would be 200 pounds lighter. No matter, because you can't build either engine to 900 horsepower in real life. 700 HP Preludes are pure dyno queens. Useless hand-grenades on a track.

Edit: What is the "redline" on a 900hp H22 in Forza?

 

[Fafalada]

Just your common or garden devshot.

I greatly disagree with the monicker "devshot".
Hi-res hi-aa shots are taken for two reasons - marketing and print. They are invariably Not a tool in development, outside of maybe taking shots for some menu art or demo-videos.
Che's rationalization is pretty funny too, considering more then half of games released in past 5 years have such "in-game utilities to pump out screens from the buffer at hi-res".

There's really nothing to argue about - a screenshot that takes several seconds to render(or really any time that is longer then your target framerate) is offline rendered, hence a bullshot, period. I bet almost every developer on this board has taken such shots at one point or another too, so what's there to rationalize?

 

[Mmmkay]

I greatly disagree with the monicker "devshot".
Hi-res hi-aa shots are taken for two reasons - marketing and print. They are invariably Not a tool in development, outside of maybe taking shots for some menu art or demo-videos.
Che's rationalization is pretty funny too, considering more then half of games released in past 5 years have such "in-game utilities to pump out screens from the buffer at hi-res".

There's really nothing to argue about - a screenshot that takes several seconds to render(or really any time that is longer then your target framerate) is offline rendered, hence a bullshot, period. I bet almost every developer on this board has taken such shots at one point or another too, so what's there to rationalize?

I don't make the rules. It's not like bulls are harmed in the process of making bullshots...

I totally understand the reasons for making high resolution in-game screenshots, but it was my understanding that the term for this was a 'devshot'. Something to differentiate it from the types of screenshots that some companies put out that have additional post process filters, higher resolution textures, or are simply photoshopped. Yeah I know it's a very common thing we see, where 'for print' media ends up online, I think Che is saying that the screenshots are not using additional effects which won't make it into the final game.

 

[Fafalada]

Ok I admit, it's just my pet peewee - it's not like anyone will standardize such terminology .
I think the pure faked/photoshoped etc. shots passed off as real thing have been growing more rare with years - ironically I don't remember 3rd parties doing it at all last gen (1st parties had their incidents on all platforms though).

I think Che is saying that the screenshots are not using additional effects which won't make it into the final game

I know - but like I noted that has been pretty common practice of late (bump up the res and AA, leave the rest). You will invariably have people claiming other differences though - rendered to higher res textures will look better (usually), better pixel clarity makes detail more apparent etc.
It's not that the assets were changed, but they DO look better on such a shot.

 

[Acert93]

There are, however, problems with having Ferrari's in the game. They are extremely strict as to what can happend with the cars (in NFS4 and all titles until recently, Ferrari and Mercedes didnt allow to have their cars being used in police pursuits.) They know allow it, however, they do not like seeing their cars get damaged. Its because of the Ferrari's that the damage models arent as "damaging" as they could be.

I cannot speak for the general market, but if I had to choose between a Ferrari in game or better damage modeling... damage all the way, every time. And I think realistic damage (and all the comes with it, including the occassional role, tires falling off, etc) is something a lot of gamers like seeing. Of course there may be a diehard Ferrari fan club out there who will buy FM2 just because they have Ferraris (I have no clue) but for a game, specifically a sim that is attempting damage modeling, go all the way!

 

[RobertR1]

Yeah, all these people saying damage means nothing because they don't crash are full of it. No way that they can all play hundreds of laps without brushing the wall, grass, other cars, etc.

It just immerses you so much more because you know you can't take any risks or else your race could be over. Of course, you have to model damage properly for that. Very few devs will make cars as frail as they really are.

An example of this frailty from the last trackday I was at:
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/191/370/2950526-img_6276.jpg

Fortunately both the driver and passenger walked away unhurt but trust me, you don't want too much damage modeling. Would take the fun out of "hero" passes on your buddies

 

[scooby_dooby]

The guts of an H22A are forged from the factory. And they are sleeved and closed deck from the factory as well. This is what allows big power to be made out of the engine. Unfortunatly, with it's inferior geometry, it's not that much more (power) than a much smaller and lighter B series.

With a b18, youre CRX would be 200 pounds lighter. No matter, because you can't build either engine to 900 horsepower in real life. 700 HP Preludes are pure dyno queens. Useless hand-grenades on a track.

Edit: What is the "redline" on a 900hp H22 in Forza?

Lol, my mistake, I have the PAL version and it's measured in Kw so I was never quite sure what the HP was, my memory was way off, I just checked and did the convertion, and it's 570hp, 456ft-lb @ 8000 rpm.

Forza has the option of throwing in anything from a b16, to b18c5 as well. Hopefully this time we can mod some Kseries

 

[22psi]

Enough of the B/H series Honda engines! It's all about the F/K series now! But in anycase, I don't think the H22A internals come forged factory or sleeved, the cylinder walls are pretty thin IIRC. I think the H22B is better for boosting purposes as the CR is lower.

But we all know the king of Japanese 4 bangers is the 4G63

 

[almighty]

Im sorry guys but the ultimate 4pot engine is the Brittish designed COSWORTH YB as found in the Ford Sierra and Escort RS Cosworths. Its design is 22 years old now and its STILL out performing ANY 2lre 4pot around.

Greekdragster has one pumping out over 1200BHP and its being fitted with a bigger turbo so it can achieve over 1500

Infact heres a pic of the new turbo next to the engine..

 

[Arwin]

Yeah, all these people saying damage means nothing because they don't crash are full of it. No way that they can all play hundreds of laps without brushing the wall, grass, other cars, etc.

It just immerses you so much more because you know you can't take any risks or else your race could be over. Of course, you have to model damage properly for that. Very few devs will make cars as frail as they really are.

I guess it's just because I'm used to really high-level competition on LAN Parties with Gran Turismo linked up. There are two factors there which make damage less interesting:

- The competition is so tight, that a crash or a mistake like that loses you so much time that you can't afford it anyway most of the time.
- sometimes you are crashed because someone else brakes too late and bumps you off the track. This is already bad enough and can cost you the race easily, but if it would also damage your car it would be a lot worse.

Especially the latter makes it less interesting. I personally feel that in that respect damage isn't helpful in competition and is better replaced by penalties that affect the offender only.

It does sometimes help you in terms of immersion though, making driving on the edge a little more exciting than usual. But flying off the track is scary regardless of whether you damage your car or not. The main problem will always be with crashes that aren't your own fault, so I'd always at least require a game to have the option to turn it off.

 

[Phil]

I agree with Arwin. I guess NASCAR and other competitive championships from america where crashing plays a central part in the race is something we Europeans don't think too highly of.

I'd rather have Polyphony working on other aspects (like realtime changing weather, wind, fog, rain etc) than using performance for something that's just nice to have for added realism (damage). In a game like Need for Speed, which focuses on fast cars on real roads with traffic etc, I think damage is a great way to enhance the game experience. In a game like Forza or Gran Turismo, I'm not so convinced.

For example, ever want to put an AWD Lancer EVO drivetrain into a FWD Eclipse?

No, not really. If someone wanted to use the EVO, why not just take the EVO instead of getting the drivetrain into a different car? <shrugs>

 

[Mintmaster]

It does sometimes help you in terms of immersion though, making driving on the edge a little more exciting than usual. But flying off the track is scary regardless of whether you damage your car or not. The main problem will always be with crashes that aren't your own fault, so I'd always at least require a game to have the option to turn it off.

Oh yeah, it must be an option for sure.

When casually playing with a bunch of friends I'm not usually going for that intense feel anyway. It's more for when I'm just racing by myself, or with just a couple friends who appreciate the added thrill of knowing a screw up can be very costly (obviously they can't be the type that tries to take others out).

The game that I found achieved this very well was Viper Racing. The AI was very good also in trying to avoid collisions and racing like a human.