That RDNA 1.8 Consoles Rumor *spawn*

Well, Steven Gavin's wife has been getting death threats over it. So it comes at a cost. Whether PS5 has or does not have is objective not subjective, so time was going to tell all anyway. It was a mental mistake for him to have released that information. These are the type of leaks best suited for journalists to deal with. They don't get death threats.

 

Yeah rumours had gone for a long time PS5 was missing features etc. Agree it was better for DF and others to discuss that openly.

 

Well ... crap. That's unforgivable from the fuckers making the threats.

I agree it was a mistake to share this information. For him, for the source, for his family. That's not an attempt to victim blame it's just to say ... god as much as I love games and understand some of the passions ... video games do attract a minority of psychos.

 

indeed... over something that is not exactly bullet proof or crystal clear to anyone. There needed to be a lot more research for any of it to make sense before going to the masses

 

So I didn’t see this posted and seems to be legit so here it is.

Also this deleted tweet from him(web archive is a bit slow)
web.archive.org/web/20200715221634/https://twitter.com/ilMal3/status/1283524232933187593

@chris1515 I know you were questioning validity of this so I provided some proof. Seems that Sony engineer thought this stuff was public knowledge.

 

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/that-rdna-1-9-consoles-rumor-spawn.61884/unread

There is a thread for this and seeing who post it and the source saying there is no hardware raytracing I don't believe source at all. Knowing how it is easy to dismiss this.

Gavin stevens is essentially a piece of shit and if it is true he knows exactly what he has done.

EDIT: Because you never post direct message or private conversation on the internet. And if it is true the guy will lose his job next monday because he was under NDA. Death threat is stupid but he works in the industry and he was knowing exactly what he was doing. You can't talk about anything when you are under NDA. You need to verify everything you say and this is exaclty what he said. I need to verify what is public.

 

Ohh didn’t see it, thanks for linking. I’m curious why does the validity of information have to do with who posted it? I provided timemachine link to Sony engineers own tweet and with him, Rosario, pretty much confirming the DM and saying no comment.

We don’t know if he was possibly trolling Gavin

 

And other things Primitive shader is probably the same thing than mesh shading but this is the AMD name. The explanation of some people made no sense I doubt people will use anything using a geometry shader. UE5 use compute shader for all triangle of 1-pixel size but for bigger triangle they use the geometry engine no compute shader if Geometry engine was using anything like geometry shading or nonflexible testator fixed-function it will not be used by Epic. And they said it is faster than the current geometry pipeline.

Same for ML who believe Laura Miele from EA who said into the second Wired there is some ML instruction into the two consoles or seeing some available RDNA 1 GPU some ML inferring instructions maybe he was talking about ML instruction use into the GPU inside datacenter where the learning process is done not the inference part.



If there is one instruction Sony did not choose to use this is maybe VRS and maybe they don't find it is fined grain enough.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3d12/vrs

 

hmmm, I'm not so sure.
RDNA 2 is DX12U certified and for that to be true then..

Mesh Shaders are issued in the same manner as compute shaders. They replace the entire pipeline right up to raster. They support meshlets and amplification.

Primitive Shaders (AMD) operate on the compute structure as well. But I don't think they do the meshlets, replace the entire front end pipeline, or support amplification.

Cerny declares the Geometry Engine as a new block of hardware. Within the Geometry engine they support Primitive Shaders. That leads me to believe that Primitive Shaders on PS5 are not Mesh Shaders. From my understanding Mesh Shaders execute identically to compute shaders but on the graphics pipeline. It's not a separate hardware block on the graphics pipeline, if it were I can't find it in the Vega or RDNA whitepapers.

Typically the ACE handles the compute pipeline on Radeon. So for there to be compute like scheduling on the graphics pipeline, I suspect it would be the graphics command processor that would need heavy modification to support Mesh Shaders. Thus we saw AMD making driver changes to support it. They failed on Vega, but succeeded on RDNA. I don't know what additional hardware is required to do it.

I'm not sure what PS5's version of what a Primitive Shader is. PS5 sounds like they built a separate hardware block for geometry processing in particular very fast culling. The end result is 'I dunno'. It sounds like Mesh Shader but I don't think this is AMD's Primitive Shader, or it could be but AMD's primitive shader is not the 100% equivalency of a mesh shader. The patent for Cerny's Geometry/Primitive Shader is here which I believe is what they used.
http://images2.freshpatents.com/pdf/US20180047129A1.pdf

 

Stuffs like Sampler Feedback, VRS and Mesh Shaders do they take up a decent size on the die at all? I'm pretty sure Sony did or omitted what they had to for a reason, either they couldn't afford to have all those or simply see more performance benefits elsewhere. I'm sure even a junior engineer would have raised those feature sets in the design meeting so it's not a matter of Sony simply 'forgot".

 

None of them sound like huge silicon requirements. But architectural ones. Like the idea of letting something have access to something it didn’t previously have access to. That’s not going to cost a lot of die space; but you’ll need to draw out how it’s going to work.

 

True all that. Well, at least Epic seems to think it's a masterpiece of a hardware design so what could go wrong right. I hope more detailed tear down is available soon.

 

Sure Sony did aware choices. This is sure. They had trouble with BC otherwise for gaining maybe a 5% on the actual ps5 today structure. They preferred to save silicon, make all that lean and "overclock"... I also thinks this "mistake" posting of the italian guy is not really a mistake but a way to let people acquainted to ps5 graphical engine structure.... he sure love a lot ps5. Many features on paper looks fabulous but in practice are almost useless.... or even damaging.

 

if your on the directx discord they've had many discussions on mesh shaders. Lots of speculation BUT nothing confirmed because AMD havent released rdna2..

some choice points ...
1. Primitive Shader is not as multi threaded as Mesh Shader on silicon level... ps is 4 threads and mesh can be hundreds
2. The GPU has to be able to pass geometry from the compute units to the rasterizer via some on-chip memory , so if it can't do that, or the amount that it can pass is limited then they wouldn't be able to support it.

 

See One-X vs ps4pro... One-x had less features but performed much better.

 

Because it came out a year later , had 4 gigs of ram more and a more powerful GPU and Cpu set up. This year both systems come out the same time and both have the same ram amount while Sony has a faster ssd and MS has a 2tflop advantage.

Anyway not much longer guys ! Hope your all saving your money ! I hit $700 on the side for a new video card so I will be with you all in spirit !

 

One-x was a more balanced system. Well I'm more concerned on lack of RAM bandwidth of ps5 vs XSX than lack of mariginally usefull features.

 

Some of these features being talked about can make the bandwidth difference even larger

 

If the spoken features are present only on a small percentage of graphic cards & consoles that actually run games in the next 10 years they will not used... so the advantage is just on paper. Again we have to see the real world advantage of this stuff. But sadly XSX numbers for Ram bandwidth vs PS5 are there very clear and immedialy usable. Same situation as One-X vs Ps4pro.

 

If we follow this example in the thread and they are there on RDNA 2 cards and Xbox Series X then they will get used quite often. Developers will want maximize how the XSX edition look and that work will make it onto the pc. MS itself has a lot of cross platform games that will implement these features because for MS its a way to make their games stand out.

Your going to see games on Xbox Series X using these features this year or early next year.