Technical Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[liolio]

I really don't think we'll be seeing any downgrades by either company. Both APU's seem to be targeting a conservative sweet spot for both CPU and GPU clocks. Had they been going for a 2GHz/1GHz approach or a 3+ GHz Steamroller/Piledriver CPU, I think we would have seen some adjustments in clocks.

Clock speed may not be an issue as it seems that power concerns prevent manufacturers to aim for the moon. Though at least Sony has quiet some room to use coarse grain redundancy to maximize wafer usage.

 

[AlNom]

"he" is me?
There was the RSx, I wonder if Xenon were not the same (slight clock speed decrease), iirc the 360 GDDR3 speed was also lower 50MHz.

The only clock speed decrease I'm aware of for 360 was from the leaked overview with "3.5GHz+" for Waternoose. The GPU and RAM remained at 500/700MHz, respectively (Well, Xenos was listed as 500+, but obviously didn't go lower).

For PS3, it was 550 -> 500MHz Core, 700 ->650MHz Mem.

 

[liolio]

The only clock speed decrease I'm aware of for 360 was from the leaked overview with "3.5GHz+" for Waternoose. The GPU and RAM remained at 500/700MHz, respectively (Well, Xenos was listed as 500+, but obviously didn't go lower).

For PS3, it was 550 -> 500MHz Core, 700 ->650MHz Mem.

Hum iirc my last post it seems that my memory did not serve me well...

 

[Cjail]

DF: Married to the eight-core processor, Orbis also features Radeon HD graphics hardware. We've previously suggested that AMD's mobile "Pitcairn" design - the Radeon 7970M - could be a strong basis for a next-gen console graphics core in terms of power consumption and die-size. Running at 850MHz and featuring 20 of AMD's "Graphics Core Next" compute units, our information suggests that Orbis shaves off 10 per cent of that number, offering up 18 CUs in total, and sees a mild downclock to 800MHz.

Doesn't this point out that the "downgrade" already happened for PS4 or I am reading it all wrong?

 

[Betanumerical]

DF: Married to the eight-core processor, Orbis also features Radeon HD graphics hardware. We've previously suggested that AMD's mobile "Pitcairn" design - the Radeon 7970M - could be a strong basis for a next-gen console graphics core in terms of power consumption and die-size. Running at 850MHz and featuring 20 of AMD's "Graphics Core Next" compute units, our information suggests that Orbis shaves off 10 per cent of that number, offering up 18 CUs in total, and sees a mild downclock to 800MHz.

Doesn't this point out that the "downgrade" liolio talked about already happened for PS4 or I a reading it all wrong?

It seems to me that, that is only pointing out that the PS4 GPU has a lower clock and less CU's then a desktop card, wether or not that was the target clock speed from the start we will never know.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Doesn't this point out that the "downgrade" already happened for PS4 or I am reading it all wrong?

Reading it wrong. It's a comparison between Liverpool and Radeon 7970M. Compared to 7970M, Liverpool has 10% less CUs and slight downclock decrease.

 

[MrFox]

I think comparing Liverpool with the 7970M was a bad comparison because the 7970M doesn't have any L2 cache. Wouldn't the 7850/7870 part be a better starting point?
(unless Liverpool GPU doesn't have any L2 either?)

 

[Love_In_Rio]

I think comparing Liverpool with the 7970M was a bad comparison because the 7970M doesn't have any L2 cache. Wouldn't the 7850/7870 part be a better starting point?
(unless Liverpool GPU doesn't have any L2 either?)

7970M has no L2 cache????.

 

[MrFox]

7970M has no L2 cache????.

I read that here, I agree it seems weird, why would they do that?
http://www.redgamingtech.com/ps4-xbox-720-gpu-vs-amd-7970m-and-7970/

EDIT: Ha! nevermind, laziness is the root of all evil:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/notebook/graphics/7000m/7900m/Pages/radeon-7900m-series.aspx#2
512k L2.

 

[3dilettante]

It wouldn't work without one.

AMD seems to differ in its L2 size count:

http://www.amd.com/us/products/notebook/graphics/7000m/7900m/Pages/radeon-7900m-series.aspx

 

[Love_In_Rio]

I read that here, I agree it seems weird, why would they do that?
http://www.redgamingtech.com/ps4-xbox-720-gpu-vs-amd-7970m-and-7970/

Ups, I think it would be more expensive for AMD to make special drivers to get working a L2-less GCN version ( if possible ) than throw there a L2 cache...

 

[b3vcard]

Does anyone know what a normal yield range would be per wafer? Are we talking 80%?

Lets say sony disabled 1 CU etc, how much extra yield would that realistically gain?

 

[Gubbi]

It wouldn't work without one.

AMD seems to differ in its L2 size count:

http://www.amd.com/us/products/notebook/graphics/7000m/7900m/Pages/radeon-7900m-series.aspx

All GCN GPUs have 128KB per memory controller (each 64 bit, dual channel). The GCN white paper says 64-128KB per controller, but to my knowledge no GPU has anything but 128KB/MC


Cheers

 

[Gubbi]

Does anyone know what a normal yield range would be per wafer? Are we talking 80%?

Lets say sony disabled 1 CU etc, how much extra yield would that realistically gain?

I'm guessing it actually has 20 CUs. The reason only 18 is active is because you don't have a bargain bin to dump all the not-so-good chips in, - they all need to qualify for PS4.

Cheers

 

[onQ]

DF: Married to the eight-core processor, Orbis also features Radeon HD graphics hardware. We've previously suggested that AMD's mobile "Pitcairn" design - the Radeon 7970M - could be a strong basis for a next-gen console graphics core in terms of power consumption and die-size. Running at 850MHz and featuring 20 of AMD's "Graphics Core Next" compute units, our information suggests that Orbis shaves off 10 per cent of that number, offering up 18 CUs in total, and sees a mild downclock to 800MHz.

Doesn't this point out that the "downgrade" already happened for PS4 or I am reading it all wrong?

No! that points to PS4 GPU having 10% less CU's than Radeon 7970M 20CU's & it's clocked at 800MHz vs Radeon 7970M 850MHz.


why would you ignore what's clearly being said & try to change it to mean something different?

 

[Michellstar]

I'm guessing it actually has 20 CUs. The reason only 18 is active is because you don't have a bargain bin to dump all the not-so-good chips in, - they all need to qualify for PS4.

Cheers

And i think that Durango might have 14 CUs like bonaire, same strategy

Given that Bonaire and Durango share the double geometry engine which 7770 lacks

 

[Cjail]

No! that points to PS4 GPU having 10% less CU's than Radeon 7970M 20CU's & it's clocked at 800MHz vs Radeon 7970M 850MHz.

why would you ignore what's clearly being said & try to change it to mean something different?

I didn't try to change the meaning or anything, I just misread it.
I even asked if was reading it wrong and was told politely that it was the case by Betanumerical and Shifty.

No "evil" intent, no conscious desire to distort reality or facts, just a mistake.
Can I make mistakes and not be attacked!

 

[RDGoodla]

Reading it wrong. It's a comparison between Liverpool and Radeon 7970M. Compared to 7970M, Liverpool has 10% less CUs and slight downclock decrease.

Is PS4 GPU based on HD 7970M or HD 7870? These two GPUs are similar but power comsuption is quite different. HD 7970M is much lower.

 

[3dilettante]

There is shared architectural pool, but modifications to the architecture and some changes to instruction support make Liverpool more closely related to the 7790.

 

[milk]

No "evil" intent, no conscious desire to distort reality or facts, just a mistake.
Can I make mistakes and not be attacked!

God Cjail, is that last sentence a question or an afirmative? You started it with the auxiliary verb "can" before the subject "I" which in english denotes a question, but your punctuation contradicts it when you use a exclamation mark, used for afirmatives, instead of a question mark. Why are you trying to confuse people with twisted use of grammar when its rulles are simple and clear?