Surprised PS2 BC wasn't dropped from el cheapo PS3 only..

R

Rainbow Man

Veteran
By starting this topic I mean no offense or anything. It's just the other in the tech forum is 12 freakin pages long and that's koind of unwieldy to keep track of and I rather not mess with that monster.

Anyway.. This might have been mentioned in above mentioned 12-page tthread but considering the hefty price difference between the "budget" PS3 and deluxe or whatever version would it not have been a good incitement for customers to have (much by Sony's own admission) backwards compatibility in the expensiver PS3.

Surely the PS2 hardware can't cost anywhere near the difference in price..

Or am I completely lost in the clouds here? (Wouldn't be the first time! :cool:)

Peace.
 
I wouldn't be too surprised since they only dropped the Emotion Engine and not the Graphics Ship (I'm unsure if this was posted already). In other words, I'm not sure if this drop will affect too many titles. Obviously, I'm unsure how powerful the EE is, and how many tricks developers can use for this on this chip, but I believe the main concerns with emulation were with the way the graphics were rendered.
 
rounin said:
I wouldn't be too surprised since they only dropped the Emotion Engine and not the Graphics Ship (I'm unsure if this was posted already). In other words, I'm not sure if this drop will affect too many titles. Obviously, I'm unsure how powerful the EE is, and how many tricks developers can use for this on this chip, but I believe the main concerns with emulation were with the way the graphics were rendered.
Click to expand...

That was actually news to me, that only the EE was excluded, that actually makes me think that they should not have too many problems with BC, then. Wasn't the biggest problem to emulate the edram in the GS? On the other hand this makes me a bit more confused on Sonys decision to remove the EE. Does that really make such a difference in price that it is worth all the emulation headache and bad press? Removing the whole EE/GS I can understand, are they really scrapping for pennys here?...
 
Rainbow Man said:
By starting this topic I mean no offense or anything. It's just the other in the tech forum is 12 freakin pages long and that's koind of unwieldy to keep track of and I rather not mess with that monster.

Anyway.. This might have been mentioned in above mentioned 12-page tthread but considering the hefty price difference between the "budget" PS3 and deluxe or whatever version would it not have been a good incitement for customers to have (much by Sony's own admission) backwards compatibility in the expensiver PS3.

Surely the PS2 hardware can't cost anywhere near the difference in price..

Or am I completely lost in the clouds here? (Wouldn't be the first time! :cool:)

Peace.
Click to expand...
You consider the ~17% price difference between the models heavy, but you think they should make it heavier by stripping another feature from the base model? I don't see any sense in that.
 
It is a good idea. It makes no sense to nerf BC across the board when there are lots of people willing to pay a little extra for a feature like this. It could be offered in a premium SKU.

I know in the EU they are only starting out with 1 SKU, I guess we should consider 60GB the core SKU for EU. (even though relative to the JP/US model it is closer to the Premium) They probably realized that for the launch window having mutiple SKUs with different capabilities makes things confusing.

But in the future I can totally see them offering a premium line with BC and the core without. For example, the 60GB model they launch with would be the core, and later a 250GB version with BC could be the premium. Or something like that.
 
Platon said:
That was actually news to me, that only the EE was excluded, that actually makes me think that they should not have too many problems with BC, then. Wasn't the biggest problem to emulate the edram in the GS? On the other hand this makes me a bit more confused on Sonys decision to remove the EE. Does that really make such a difference in price that it is worth all the emulation headache and bad press? Removing the whole EE/GS I can understand, are they really scrapping for pennys here?...
Click to expand...

The effort to keep GS suggests that they are still committed to preserve some hardware "authenticity" in the backwards compatibility function of PS3. I imagine a parallelised hardware like the EE could be easier for CELL to emulate.

They might just avoid case-by-case patching.
 
Sorry to sound like a Sony FB again, but this talk about 'dropping' PS2 Backwards-Compatability and a Premium version with and Core version without is grossly misleading for people who aren't clued in. We are talking about reduced BC here, but we don't know by how much. Considering how hard Sony has worked on BC, I think the only thing we are talking about here is that Sony dropped its ambition to go for 100% BC. But how much games that leaves up in the air? If 20% doesn't work, then we are talking about 2000 games out of 10000 (in Europe). That's a very significant amount and enough for Sony to make the comment we are discussing now, but it is still a considerable amount of games that are in fact BC.

I'm pretty sure that the reason they haven't made the site live yet is because they are still testing which games have which - it's a heck of a lot of games to test, and does anyone remember how detailed the testing details were for the US and JPN BC websites?
 
Capeta said:
I thought the single chip EE+GS was really cheap to manufacture? I guess not.
Click to expand...
Maybe the problem is more that PS2 isn't actually a single chip. It's more like at least 4 chips from what I understand of which half is that weird RDRAM that never made it into PCs.

Arwin said:
Sorry to sound like a Sony FB again, but this talk about 'dropping' PS2 Backwards-Compatability and a Premium version with and Core version without is grossly misleading for people who aren't clued in. We are talking about reduced BC here, but we don't know by how much.
Click to expand...
Well the press release did state 'greatly reduced' BC or words to that effect. I think that speaks fairly clearly what they've done and what their priorities are (try and make more money fast any way possible).

Peace.
 
I just noticed that it's about 380e in Amazon.jp... I hadn't realised that the 60GB model is so cheap in Japan... It's about 300 euros less than where I live. I'm not particularly happy about that.
 
Blazkowicz said:
and japan isn't known for its low cost of living. (don't things like apples have insane prices there)
Click to expand...

I think the average cost of living is pretty much on par with other developed countries, and even if it isn't I'm sure with PS3 costing so little they can afford to buy apples for a very long time :smile:
 
Rainbow Man said:
Maybe the problem is more that PS2 isn't actually a single chip. It's more like at least 4 chips from what I understand of which half is that weird RDRAM that never made it into PCs.

Well the press release did state 'greatly reduced' BC or words to that effect. I think that speaks fairly clearly what they've done and what their priorities are (try and make more money fast any way possible).
Click to expand...
Most likely the PCB of the new model is also simpler and they do not want to produce two or more models with different layouts in their factories.

We had RDRAM for a quite time on PCs, remember the early Pentium4s?
 
http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23148

"PAL PS3 will be compatible with 1000 PS2 games at launch, with more titles coming afterwards"

The question now is, is that how many they tested, or do the other 9000 actually not work? And which titles did they go for - the top 1000 best sold, or any of the 10.000 that happened to work. Questions, questions. ;)
 
Arwin said:
http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23148

"PAL PS3 will be compatible with 1000 PS2 games at launch, with more titles coming afterwards"

The question now is, is that how many they tested, or do the other 9000 actually not work? And which titles did they go for - the top 1000 best sold, or any of the 10.000 that happened to work. Questions, questions. ;)
Click to expand...
PAL PS2 are 2,451 titles as of the end of the last year, so it'll be "the other 1500 titles".
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdatatitle_e.html
 
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