Supposed MS insider discusses RRoD errors, Falcon at 10% failure rate?

[scooby_dooby]

The 10% may well be. In most other markets a high failure rate would mean consumers wouldn't buy the product, and would tell their friends not to buy the product. Why does the opposite happen in games consoles?

It didn't. There certainly was a ton of negative word of mouth, ever since the initial 360 launch in 2005 when the yhad huge failure rates. That obviously impacted sales in some unmeasurable degree.

What happened was, the quality of the product (in terms of game libray, gfx, and online functions), and the desire of users to use the product, outweighed those risks in the minds of consumers.

Another thing that happened was, most of the launch 360's worked well for a year, and so the issue went away. Then, when they started failing en masse, the issue came back into the forefront, and MS was forced to extend their warrantee.

Since that move, an airtight 3 year, no expenses paid, Warrantee was introduced (for RROD), the issue has largely been dropped.

After all, how many CE products have 3 year, no cost Warrantees on their products? Probably none.

 

[zed]

After all, how many CE products have 3 year, no cost Warrantees on their products? Probably none.

i dont know the exact length (it maybe 3 years) but here in NZ if any product failed from normal use then the manufactures have to fix it / replace it free of charge

 

[AlphaWolf]

SO both of you think Microsoft do not count replacement units as sales. Fair enough.

They cannot and do not count them as sales. Period.

 

[assen]

Still - what is it about games machines that makes consumers so less angry? I guess the main media isn't so much interested about it...if 30% of an HDTV model failed, the TV would be taken off the market.

Maybe the price. HDTVs average what, $1000-1500 a pop? The Xbox is in the $300-400 range. There is a lot of failure going on with $40 supermarket brand MP3 players, but I don't hear any brouhaha.

 

[wco81]

If they didn't extend the RROD warranty, it would have become a big deal.

They bit the bullet when they had to.

 

[Graham]

i don't know the exact length (it maybe 3 years) but here in NZ if any product failed from normal use then the manufactures have to fix it / replace it free of charge

The consumer guarantees act doesn't give an exact number, it's more 'normal expected lifetime of the product'. So a car is expected to last for 10 years, milk isn't. For consumer electronics it is generally considered to be 3-5 years. The major difference with the US being it's the responsibility of the retailer to replace the unit, not the manufacturer (although ultimately it is). This is why I don't worry about rrod (my nz-launch unit is fine), ignore extended warranties, disk insurance (!) and such. If anything goes wrong in 3 years all I have to do is make a fuss and threaten to take them to small claims court.

I believe most EU countries such as the UK also have similar laws.

 

[Silenti]

The U.S has simlar laws UNLESS specifically stated by the manufacturer on the product in clear language, etc, etc.

 

[Silent]

I believe most EU countries such as the UK also have similar laws.

There is a European directive that states that products must have a warantee of minimal 2 years. In some countries for some goods its even longer. A television may not break after 4 years for example.

But still with the "no hassle" replacement the 360 has come under allot of fire in some european mainstream media. I know that in the Netherlands in the consumer program "Kassa" the 360 has been an item for numerous occasions; scratching discs, RRODs, etc.

It also doesn't help when the news reaches people that European commision started an investigation about the failing 360's. In Europe they tend (thank god) to take consumer rights very serious.

 

[scooby_dooby]

i dont know the exact length (it maybe 3 years) but here in NZ if any product failed from normal use then the manufactures have to fix it / replace it free of charge

Unfortunately that's not the case in North America. Almost all CE products come with 1 yr limited warrantee, and that's it. If the product fails you're screwed.

 

[Daozang]

Now I don't believe in fate, ill omens and the like... But my 360 just RRODed... 5 minutes after seeing this thread...
It's the second one and not a falcon...
Does anyone think that I can get one of the new ones from MS?
By the way my experience with these things is, that they live about a year and then die a red ringed death...
Oh well, at least it didn't die on me when I was playing ME...

 

[deepbrown]

They cannot and do not count them as sales. Period.

Fair enough. I was unsure. Full Stop.

 

[....]

What??? If they'd count replacements as newly sold, it'd make the attach rate worse, as it's number of machines / number of software.

They did send me a game with my replacement unit, though I don't think that's policy, nor would it affect much.

What would be truly shocking would be if indeed 100% of all the initial batches of 360s are destined to fail early as the article suggests. It'd be even more shocking if microsoft kept all those millions upon millions of units going out again and again refurbished.

 

[joker454]

I believe most EU countries such as the UK also have similar laws.

Out of curiosity, is that why products cost so much more there? I've only been in the US about 10 years, but I've noticed that electronics are dirt cheap here compared to Canada, Europe, etc. Always wondered why, especially since they are all imported items anyways.

 

[wco81]

I think higher warranty costs probably do contribute to higher prices.

But also, the almost 20% VAT probably doesn't help either.

 

[sevanig]

I think the 30% failure rate figure was a bit modest...
I think its almost 40%
Out my workmates and I, there are 5 of us who have 360's
2 have already failed, and mine RROD once but now it works (kinda weird)

 

[BRiT]

I think the 30% rate is about 6 times too high. Out of 20 local people I know who have Xbox360s none of them have had RRoD or other issues with them.

 

[slider]

I think the 30% rate is about 6 times too high. Out of 20 local people I know who have Xbox360s none of them have had RRoD or other issues with them.

So where did you get the 6 from??

Honestly, this should all be left aside. The only figures I routinely see are people's personal experiences. And because they're personal and subjective they usually get someone's back up.

EDIT: Well, ok - maybe it shouldn't be left totally aside - when people pay a few hundred £s/$s for a product they want it to work. I'm just wary of the dangers.

 

[Gubbi]

Out of curiosity, is that why products cost so much more there? I've only been in the US about 10 years, but I've noticed that electronics are dirt cheap here compared to Canada, Europe, etc. Always wondered why, especially since they are all imported items anyways.

It used to be that way. I think it is primarily because the U.S. is a much bigger market so all fixed costs are easier amortized (localisation, marketing etc). On top of that you have much more (better) competition at the retail level in the U.S.

In Europe there are some consumer protection laws that might add to cost: At least 2 years warranty on *anything* with an electric plug. Price transparency; You're not allowed to advertise the selling price of a product after send-in coupons etc. are deducted from the price, stuff like that.

Then we have a much higher tax on goods. In my part of the world it is 25%.

Up until 12 months ago I'd say we were at price parity with the U.S. when not including VAT. However [e|re]tailers are really cashing in on the tanking dollar. Consumers aren't complaining because prices has fallen drastically, but not as much as the dollar.

Cheers

 

[inefficient]

10% sounds too high for the Falcon.

But then 30% sounds too low for the overall failure rate.

 

[Arwin]

He said that it dropped below 10% for the Falcon, but that it is still high for a CE device. So we don't know the precise figure from the above interview, just that it went down to somewhere under 10% but probably not too far under 10% or he'd have mentioned a different threshold.