*split* multiplatform console-world problems + Image Quality Debate

[Rockster]

I don't think so. It makes zero sense. The ESRAM is a working buffer - you'd no more reserve a slice of it for the OS than you'd reserve a slice of L2 CPU cache.

From everything I've read, there is fairly fine grained control of buffers placed in esram, and in no way behaves like the L4 in Intel's GT3e. The OS would be oblivious in attempting to identify the best pages to move out if it wanted some of that ram for its functions and could kill all the game titles expected timings. The easy solution would be to reserve some, which is possibly what we are seeing/reading about here. But I don't know for sure. My suggestion is they could define a state in which the game title knows it would lose a certain portion of that memory so as not to have a constant reserve, but its implementation not ready for launch.

If there is a reserve it would be interesting to know what it is, what its used for, and how much of it Ghosts needs. I don't think they are deferred, and simply a straight z-prepass during which they do some light stuff. Back of the napkin math doesn't add up to needing to come all the way down to 720, so its very curious indeed.

 

[zed]

how is it horrible if it make some think its better?

overuse of lensflares, to much bloom glowing faces eg in obvilion game.
some ppl though they looked better cause they go 'oohhh shiny' but in realtity they we'rent and nowadays arent overused as much as they used to be.
remember when xbox360/ps3 came out heaps of games had the grey/brown look, lots of ppl went wow, next gen, that looks nice. that lasted for about a year before ppl saw sense.

oversharpening is a similar thing.

some ppl might think this looks better than the original but in reality it aint

 

[taisui]

well, sounds like we all agree that image quality is a subjective thing, then I don't see how your preference is more "right" than other people's preference.

 

[shredenvain]

Don't know about "first" footage, but Crytek has presentations with ryse imagery that states "1080p on a 7970"

Im not doubting what you are saying but can you provide a link because ive not seen any Ryse presentations that mention anything about using a 7970.

 

[djskribbles]

Artificially altering an image too much where it creates some nasty artifacts is a big turn off to image quality purists. The artifacts cannot be removed because they were applied to the source. On the other hand, if you have more 'real' detail with no artificial sharpening, you can easily apply it yourself with the display's controls.

But yes, image quality in general is subjective.

 

[RudeCurve]

well, sounds like we all agree that image quality is a subjective thing, then I don't see how your preference is more "right" than other people's preference.

Agreed....that said sharpening can be good or bad just depends on how much sharpening is being done and the algorithm used. I do a lot of photo work and the reality is sometimes the stuff coming out from the camera is not sharp enough so you have to digitally sharpen the image.

Which one looks better? Which do you prefer? Which one is the untouched original?

 

[djskribbles]

Subtle sharpening is OK in my books. But that's the thing... IMO, it's applied far too heavily here.

edit: not sure what we're discussing anymore.

 

[DrJay24]

well, sounds like we all agree that image quality is a subjective thing, then I don't see how your preference is more "right" than other people's preference.

You are also ignoring the fact these are not blind tests, the images are labeled and hence the results are biased.

 

[taisui]

You are also ignoring the fact these are not blind tests, the images are labeled and hence the results are biased.

Haha you don't say, Is that why people would sharpen the PS4 images in comparison GIFs?

 

[DrJay24]

Haha you don't say, Is that why people would sharpen the PS4 images in comparison GIFs?

Whatever you say, sharpening filter are the latest craze, tell all the devs they improve IQ and for practically free. If MS and Sony had figured it out sooner they could have extended this last gen by a few years.

 

[taisui]

Whatever you say, sharpening filter are the latest craze, tell all the devs they improve IQ and for practically free. If MS and Sony had figured it out sooner they could have extended this last gen by a few years.

straw man, no one is suggesting that post processing is all powerful, but if you are making the argument that image sharpening will make thing look worse universally because it introduces artifacts, then you are dead wrong. Heck, Adobe practically built their business on this.

Having actually spent time on image processing I can tell you that good upscaling algorithm is not an easy problem to solve at all.

 

[joker454]

Didn't Microsoft previously talk about how useful the eSRAM is in regards to GPGPU and the example they used was with the kinect processing they do, wouldn't that require a eSRAM reserve?.

I don't think the os should need an esram reserve, the stuff it does should be served well enough via ddr3, I don't think it would be as time sensitive as games are.

 

[2real4tv]

Are they any other launch titles other than Forza that is native 1080P?

 

[eastmen]

One thing to remember is the game went gold at the beginning of October maybe even earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zwt7Ucpi5M

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Browsing the net, its just funny to see how many articles there are claiming resolution doesn't matter. Wow ! I was such a fool all these years spending money all over for a few pixels more. Apparently, we should have stuck with the CRT 480p TVs and Monitors , as we don't require more pixels at all. Why are all these people spending somuch on 1080p TVs, Blu rays, Blu ray players when pixels don't matter at all ! OMG the whole world is crazy over something they can't see !


Internet gets more weird each day. Anything to feel good about a choice u made already. MS must be so happy to see people defending them for free.

Atleast COD and BF4 have shown that the power difference between the two hardwares isn't just theoretical. Rational people can make a choice now.

 

[joker454]

Browsing the net, its just funny to see how many articles there are claiming resolution doesn't matter.

Why is it funny? It's nothing new, just the same stuff we've been hearing ad nauseum for many many years now regarding how irrelevant resolution is. The only difference is for years it was directed at pc games, whereas now it's being directed at consoles. I guess the rules have changed though and now resolution is incredibly important, which explains why millions of football fans are now suddenly complaining to ESPN for being unwatchable due to them being only 720p. I wonder how the NFL will deal with the situation.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Resolution only mattered when the PS3 version of Black Ops had lower resolution assets and screen space than the 360 version. It doesn't matter now.

Maybe fill rate and bandwidth actually matter.

 

[betan]

TVs are getting bigger and cheaper. It's normal for joe average to be more sensitive to resolution. I personally am a little bothered by 720p TV channels and between SD, HD and 1080i it's not hard to guess the resolution.

That said, increasing resolution is a lazy man's scaling (to hardware) solution. I'd probably prefer 720p photorealistic game any day (maybe except for aiming reticle issues).

 

[eastmen]

Resolution only mattered when the PS3 version of Black Ops had lower resolution assets and screen space than the 360 version. It doesn't matter now.

Maybe fill rate and bandwidth actually matter.

no it didn't matter then but it matters now apparently . Close to the same number of people bought a ps3 vs an xbox 360.

 

[trainplane]

The reality is there's no definitive answer to it for every single person. Some people, with the size and distance of their TV, can't tell 1080p to 720p. Others who have bigger sets can tell. And even for people who can tell, some folks don't care. So it matters for some and doesn't matter for others depending on situations. There's no one definitive answer.

Yes, there are some reasonable distances in which the 720p XB1 COD will look as good as the PS4. If you can't acknowledge that, maybe you have an agenda? And yes, if you are close enough depending on your eyesite and other factors, it can look much worse. Does every single aspect of these systems have to turn into console wars?

For me, I think MS absolutely should have made it a priority to build the XB1 to output 1080p/60 in modern games, but I understand that a lot of people won't care. Many journalist say it doesn't matter, and while I wish they would care more, but I'm not going to say they're a bunch of MS shills if they don't agree with me. Have people lost the ability to think rationally?

And I'm not necessarily referring to people here but the general rage and console wars around the Internet.