*spin-off* Dynamic GI on Consoles

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Turok, Mar 26, 2011.

  1. i nerini del buio

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    yup, playing the x360 version right now and see no GI
    I get it's on in the ps3 version though?
     
  2. Afrikan

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    3
    so MLB The Show 09 is still the only console game/series with GI?
     
  3. L. Scofield

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,559
    Likes Received:
    323
    Is there any video showing the dynamic aspects of MLB's GI?

    LBP2 has GI as well.
     
  4. Afrikan

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    3
    #124 Afrikan, Apr 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2011
  5. zed

    zed
    Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    6,415
    Likes Received:
    2,139
    whilst its nice and all that & my hats off to them, but choosing an outdoor environment & single light (unless its night maybe) is not the way to showcase it
    heres my real time GI from 9 years ago (very low quality I admit)
    http://www.flipcode.com/archives/03-25-2002.shtml
    but if youre gonna use (one of the holy grail of CGI ) radiosity, you really wanna do it in something like quake2, i.e. a corridor shooter
     
  6. L. Scofield

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,559
    Likes Received:
    323
    Yeah I've seen that image, but I'd like to see it in action. The way the image explains it, there's no hint of dynamic objects affecting the lighting at all, so it's not truly a dynamic GI solution.
     
  7. Lucid_Dreamer

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    3
    You can't say it's not truly a dynamic GI solution in MLB '09: The Show and later versions. We do know there are dynamic day transitions with the GI. Either way, there is GI in MLB '09: The Show and later versions.
     
  8. (((interference)))

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,499
    Likes Received:
    70
    So...the consensus is no realtime GI for Crysis 2 on consoles?

    Should someone message/tweet Grandmaster and tell him.
     
  9. Turok

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is no consensus on anything. Some people are saying it's totally absent, others are saying it's there for just the sun, and other are saying that it's there for some objects, not all of them.
     
  10. L. Scofield

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,559
    Likes Received:
    323
    I did. Since only static surfaces seem to be taken into account for the GI (at least, according to the article posted) there might be a precomputed step, similar to Enlighten's.
     
  11. (((interference)))

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,499
    Likes Received:
    70
    I don't know, Nebula (who is the resided Crytek expert) isn't convinced and all the screens supposedly showing GI have been rejected.

    Someone should inform Richard to investigate further. The worst thing would be if Crytek gets plaudits for doing something they didn't do.
     
  12. SedentaryJourney

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    28
    The article indicates that the indirect illumination is done in real time.
    Since you are asserting that the lighting is partially precomputed, the burden of proof is actually on you in this case.

    It seems you're assuming that because the game doesn't have dynamic environments that it must somehow be a precomputed solution. Given that baseball games don't usually have level changes, if we allow this premise then how could one possibly dispute it? I think the lack of dynamic level geometry can't be a sound argument against real-time GI being present in the game.
     
  13. L. Scofield

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,559
    Likes Received:
    323
    The article is clear, they take no lighting information from any dynamic objects in the world, only static. Just like Geomeric's Enlighten and Lionhead's recently shown GI solution, both use precomputation.

    You made the leap by assuming that since there are some aspects of realtime GI it automatically is fully dynamic.
     
  14. SedentaryJourney

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    28
    Like I said in my last post, I don't accept the premise that a game has precomputed radiosity by virtue of the fact that the environment is static. I think you're making the leap at this point without explaining how static geometry entails precomputed GI. It may be true that if you use a precomputed solution you cannot have dynamic geometry but the reverse is a completely different proposition.

    The article clearly does not make any mention of lightmaps or precomputation, so I don't see how you came to your conclusion from anything within the article. Again your point is the levels are static therefore the GI is precomputed. Why? Even if you claim a tendency, nothing about this necessarily follows. Yes the environment happens to be static given the nature of baseball and stadiums and such. Maybe in the future we'll include some dynamic topography into the sport, who knows.

    BTW given that they are only calculating indirect illumination for sunlight as Crytek does, I could infer that it's probably simplified enough to do completely in real time, whereas BF3 supports indirect illumination from multiple light sources.
     
    #134 SedentaryJourney, Apr 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2011
  15. MJP

    MJP
    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    It never indicates anything of the sort. It just gives a very basic overview of how their GI works, without ever saying when the steps occur. Considering the performance implications and novelty of real-time GI algorithms (plus the fact that the game has to run at 60fps), I think it would a mistake to assume that they're not doing all or most of it at tool time just like any other recent game.

    Looking at the pictures, it's very clear that the sky lighting is done with a per-vertex AO term and that the the dynamics (crowds, players) don't have the AO term nor does any indirect light reflect off of them. So at best they could be using something like enlighten or other point-based approaches where the indirect lighting is handled at runtime, but with pre-computed visibility. But without those developers actually saying that (or in-game evidence to support it), I would put my money on them just pre-baking the indirect lighting too and using standard irradiance volumes for the dynamics.
     
  16. Lucid_Dreamer

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    3
    So, how much effort would it take to do this for the gradual change in lighting over the course of the day (daylight transitions until night)? After all, Crysis 2 on consoles doesn't do this (dynamic GI or not).
     
  17. L. Scofield

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,559
    Likes Received:
    323
    @lucid

    Saying some game has GI is useless without clarifying what type of technique they're using.
     
  18. jlippo

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Location:
    Finland
    We do know it uses reflective shadow mapping which injects light contribution into a light propagation volume.
    They refresh the RSM every 5th? frame so including dynamic objects to RSM, might not be a good idea for temporal stability of the light. (running character would light it's own back the next frame and so on..)
     
  19. Lucid_Dreamer

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    3
    If you comprehended my earlier post, quote the part where I said it was "fully dynamic". Then, couple that with the last sentence (particularly, the first two words) of that very same post. :)
     
  20. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,391
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    NGC2264
    Thanks for the clarification. Also surprised not a single video of the GI in MLB has been shown. You ought to think they or others would showcase it and be proud...
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...