Sony's Cross-Generation Game Messaging [2021]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by eastmen, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. chris1515

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    Did I say it will catch up to offline rendering? This is a moving target. And they won't be 16 years behind offline rendering. Games are more 5/10 years late in shading. Since last generation on PS4 and Xbox One shading is better than many movie older than 10 years ago. I think at the end of the generation, we will be not far from assets quality of offline rendering out of probably vegetation or other special case. We will improve a lot the LOD problem but probably not be able to hide it everywhere. After everything else is in my other post.

    The first goal is not to catch offline rendering but produce something so good it will be impossible to know this is not offline rendering no matters if there is 10 or 15 years or more of quality between offline rendering and realtime rendering. I hope one day realtime rendering will reach it.

    And this is what I say when we are far from offline rendering for example asset quality(geometry, texture details) peaked before raytracing arrival on offline rendering. I don't expect realtime rendering to reach offline rendering lighting quality or physics effect and so on. But having when needed 1 polygon per pixel or even subpixel details like in hair, this is great and maybe we aren't far the day where we will not see any visible polygon. Same with texture quality 1 texel per pixel. I expect big improvement in anti aliasing but maybe it will be solved on next generation console with PS6 and Xbox Series X, same for motion blur or depth of field.



    http://lousodrome.net/blog/light/20...ased-rendering-references-at-the-end-of-2019/

    Some few movies before 2010 were using PBR but it was not the standard in the offline rendering industry.

     
    #61 chris1515, Jan 10, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
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  2. snc

    snc
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  3. London Geezer

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    Surely we’re not going to whinge about £70 games every time we see one come out? New normal guys!
     
  4. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    I whined, then canceled my PS5 pre order since they announced the games will be around 1 million IDR, about 50%-100% more expensive than current games.

    If PSPlus ( still have subs until 2022 IIRC) became like gamepass, then ill probably buy a PS5.
     
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  5. milk

    milk Like Verified
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    Real time will never catch up to offline in absolute terms, but with every gen, the PERCEPTUAL gap is shorter and shorter, even though the technological one might not be. Professionals and enthusiasts that know what to look for aside, of course.
     
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  6. snc

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    yep, also there is no massive leap in for example cars 1 from 2006 to cars 3 from 2017

    this style of graphic can't be much better
     
  7. London Geezer

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    I mean, when was Finding Nemo? Must be about 15 years? We're still quite far, even though things have progressed a lot in the last few years!
     
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  8. London Geezer

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    Also, not sure this is the right thread for this? We had a 'real time Pixar' kind of thread some time ago.
     
  9. SumoSaki

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    I won't whinge but I'll simply wait for the correct price of £39.99 not the Covid price.
     
  10. Globalisateur

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    Yep. And it'll get there eventually.
     
  11. eastmen

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    The only way to make something that is impossible to know is offline rendering or not is to make it as good as offline rendering. So you need to catch it first and its a moving target. If something really good is implemented into real time rendering then it will get implemented into offline rendering also.

    Here is another issue. I don't see anyhting that comes close to looking like Incredibles 2 or frozen 2 or onward being done on real time hardware in a game senario. I haven't seen it on the ps5 or xbox series x or ps5 and all those movies pre-date the next gen hardware itself. This generation of hardware is going to come and go and while the games will look much better moving up the chain of old offline rendered movies it will still be way behind the pace. I have said it before but I am still waiting for something to hit the shrek 2 storming of the castle



    I've played the demon souls remake and it gets close but its still not there yet in animation or complexity imo.

    Its just never going to catch up because at the end of the day there is already better hardware out there than the ps5 and pixar and dream works don't just use one piece of hardware. If they wanted to they could have all top of the line amd gpus with 32 cores and huge amounts of ram with multiple professional versions of the 6900xt and they can have hundreds of them devoting hours or days to a single frame of animation.
     
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  12. chris1515

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    Again you have a big difference between for example in engine prerendered trailer with games assets and true realtime gameplay or cutscene. And it doesn't need to reach the level of the last Planet of Apes movie or Avengers End Game. I don't speak about reaching cutting edge offline rendering but to be unable to know if something is prerendered or not.

    The day we will not know if something is prerendered in engine or realtime, this will be a huge day.:wink: This is the first step. This is what I think when I speak about offline rendering quality videogame. Currently this is easy to see artifact everywhere in videogame. It is more difficult in cutscene and I hope impossible before end of current generation. But the best will be when it will be very difficult to spot in gameplay out of clipping problem.

    First have assets without any artifact from last generation rendering, visible polygon, hair card, no subsurface scattering during gameplay, bad resolution texture and bad texture filtering and resolve continuous level of detail problem and so on.* After There are some improvement to do in AA (edge and shader AA), motion blur, depth of field, VFX and postprocessing effect quality. And finally all the improvement to do with Global illumination and raytracing.

    Out of rendering problem to solve it will be important to improve animation or scene complexity.

    This was "prerendered" running at a non interactive framerate on PS4(1 or 2 frames per second maybe?).



    Same here:


    This is what I want to reach when about "prerendered" realtime quality. The day we will be unable to do the difference between prerendred in engine with games assets and realtime games.

    The day devs without a fully optimized game engine will be able to use a prerenderd in engine trailer with game assets for the marketing of a game and be able to deliver a game nearly as good as the trailer will be THE day I want to reach.

    EDIT: Imo the biggest difference is to remove many artifacts in realtime rendering after we can think to reach one day the rendering level of the last planet of apes for example

    * Maybe this first part will be fully solve after PS6/Xbox Series 2.

    EDIT: And I know there are things old rendering oflline movie does better than games. The first Toy Story has better edge anti aliasing, motion blur and depth of field than realtime videogame.
     
    #72 chris1515, Jan 17, 2021 at 5:12 PM
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021 at 6:36 PM
  13. PSman1700

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    The day when games are going to match high budget CGI movies is very very far away. In special on 500 dollar consoles.
     
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