SONY's 1st party games as good as Nintendo's!

[LogisticX]

Once again, I reiterate that perception changes everything, even when facts may be present to dispute a point of view.


Also....with Nintendo titles, there seems to be a general weight that each carries when a successor to a popular franchise (to be a dead horse I use mario) is released...usually, any minor shortcomings that may be present in the title will be overlooked purely for nostalgia's sake. IGN's review of SMS did not warrant the numbered score it received when all things taken into consideration. Of course, its all just conjecture, this arguement as I've stated can never be put to rest.

 

[Ozymandis]

Also....with Nintendo titles, there seems to be a general weight that each carries when a successor to a popular franchise (like mario)...usually, any minor shortcomings that may be present in the title will be overlooked purely for nostalgia's sake.

Exactly. While it's not en vogue to make that point, I totally agree with it.

When you have a game that's part of a classic series like nearly all of Nintendo's games, many reviewers (and gamers) are not going to review the title on its own merits. And as you say Super Mario Sunshine is a perfect example. It's at 91% average on Gamerankings, but I've played it, and it's no "A" game by ANY stretch of the imagination.

Mind you, it's not just Nintendo games, although that's the best example. Sega has a few franchises, like Panzer Dragoon and Virtua Fighter, that are classic enough to be virtually beyond reproach.

 

[wazoo]

When you have a game that's part of a classic series like nearly all of Nintendo's games, many reviewers (and gamers) are not going to review the title on its own merits. And as you say Super Mario Sunshine is a perfect example. It's at 91% average on Gamerankings, but I've played it, and it's no "A" game by ANY stretch of the imagination.

It is just the best platformer since Mario64.

Mind you, it's not just Nintendo games, although that's the best example. Sega has a few franchises, like Panzer Dragoon and Virtua Fighter, that are classic enough to be virtually beyond reproach

Panzer Dragon is not beyond reproach.

 

[Ozymandis]

It is just the best platformer since Mario64.

That's your opinion. Me, I found a couple of problems with it. Mainly that the camera sucked. I despise games that make me babysit the camera. Super Mario Sunshine was the worst example of this. You'd think that Nintendo would have learned something about 3d cameras in the six years since SM64...

Panzer Dragon is not beyond reproach.

The reviews of Orta so far support me.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Panzer Dragoon Orta is nearly perfect.

Super Mario Sunshine was a big disappointment. Rayman 2 and Jak & Dakster are better games. Strip away the Mario name and it would have gotten high 7s and low 8s IMO. Metroid Prime is WAY overated. The controls are just bad and there is essentially no AI. If this weren't Metroid people wouldn't tolerate the regenerating enemies either. Nostalgia factor with this one for sure.

Nintendo is number one still, but MS and Sony aren't far behind at all.

2003 should be interesting. IMO Halo 2, Fable, and Project Gotham Racing 2, will be better than Zelda, F-Zero, and whatever else Nintendo comes up with. I'm not sure what Sony has besides the sure-to-be-good Gran Turismo 4, but they'll probably exceed Nintendo's lineup as well.

 

[Tagrineth]

Super Mario Sunshine was a big disappointment. Rayman 2 and Jak & Dakster are better games. Strip away the Mario name and it would have gotten high 7s and low 8s IMO. Metroid Prime is WAY overated. The controls are just bad and there is essentially no AI. If this weren't Metroid people wouldn't tolerate the regenerating enemies either. Nostalgia factor with this one for sure.

I'm not going to comment on Prime's controls, but AI? It doesn't need insanely intelligent AI. And actually the Space Pirates are pretty intelligent at times, they'll seek cover if it's close enough, and against Omega Pirate on Hard, when I fought it there were a few SP's generated which chose to attack from the upper platforms rather than jump down, because Omega kills the other pirates with his shockwave

Also regenerating enemies aren't a problem. WTF. If you hate them so much, IGNORE THEM. If they didn't regenerate you wouldn't have anything to fight at all after a while, LOL.

2003 should be interesting. IMO Halo 2, Fable, and Project Gotham Racing 2, will be better than Zelda, F-Zero, and whatever else Nintendo comes up with. I'm not sure what Sony has besides the sure-to-be-good Gran Turismo 4, but they'll probably exceed Nintendo's lineup as well.

If F-Zero GC lives up to F-Zero X, I can definitely say that in my opinion it'll slap the shit out of Gran Tourismo 4 and PGR2.

And Star Fox Armada will probably toast PDO, but that's still up in the air really, since nothing on SFArmada has been said yet.

And I won't trust Fable 'till it's been out for at least two months

 

[Teasy]

Also....with Nintendo titles, there seems to be a general weight that each carries when a successor to a popular franchise (to be a dead horse I use mario) is released...usually, any minor shortcomings that may be present in the title will be overlooked purely for nostalgia's sake.

I'm sure that occurs sometimes, but if anything most of the time Nintendo games are judged to harshly because of the legacy Nintendo games have. Any new Nintendo game, especially one from a famous franchise, is following a long long list of fantastic games. Its allot harder to impress people when you are expected to do so. If SMS wasn't following Mario 64 it would have a higher average review score then 91.7%.

The reviews of Orta so far support me.

So you want to ignore reviews when it comes to SMS and hide behind them when it comes to Orta?.. I wonder why

Orta looks like an excellent game, SMS is deffinately an excellent game, its a pitty that your bias prevents you from admiting that.

As for your "problems" with SMS, the camera is fine. Most of the time it follows Mario perfectly. Sometimes its best to reposition the camera yeah, but whats the problem with having the option to optimize the view of the camera?.. especially when the camera stick is easily used without hindering the gameplay.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Calling Ozy out for being a fanboi is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while, since he's probably the LEAST biased person around here.

 

[Teasy]

Don't give me that, I didn't say he was a fan-boy, I was saying that he is biased towards XBox/MS and biased against GC/Nintendo, there's a difference IMO.

One of the least bias people around here?.. give me a break.

 

[Ozymandis]

So you want to ignore reviews when it comes to SMS and hide behind them when it comes to Orta?.. I wonder why

Orta looks like an excellent game, SMS is deffinately an excellent game, its a pitty that your bias prevents you from admiting that.

Teasy, you totally missed the point of what I was saying. Re-read the statement in context with the posts preceding it, and then maybe you'll understand what I meant. It wasn't a statement about the quality of Orta at all.

As far as Super Mario Sunshine, I don't really want to argue about that. Well, maybe a little. Personally, I want a game's camera as simple as possible. Keep it behind me at all times please. Don't distract me with it.

The most damning thing for me was, I dunno, I guess I felt that SMS didn't really feel like a game that came out six years after Super Mario 64. I think my taste in games has changed a lot since then. For better or for worse, I expect more from games this generation.

Calling Ozy out for being a fanboi is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while, since he's probably the LEAST biased person around here.

Thanks. I have my preferences just like everyone else here though


BTW, I changed my mind about Celda. I'm going to go out on a limb and pre-order it. The gameplay seems to be solid, and there's nothing else that I want coming out in March (I don't think) so I should have plenty of time to play it

 

[Ozymandis]

Oh, and Teasy, how am I an Xbox fanboy? The Playstation2 is my favourite console this generation, by far. And furthermore I felt that Gamecube overall had a better 2002 than Xbox did.

Now carry on with your preconceived notions

And Star Fox Armada will probably toast PDO, but that's still up in the air really, since nothing on SFArmada has been said yet.

I doubt it. Orta has set the bar extremely high. And since Star Fox can't really match the visuals, art, and depth of universe that Panzer Dragoon has, it will be starting at a disadvantage before it even comes out.

Still, I'm looking forward to Armada. I expect more difficulty and intensity this time, and less Slippy Toad

 

[wazoo]

Panzer Dragoon Orta is nearly perfect.

Super Mario Sunshine was a big disappointment. Rayman 2 and Jak & Dakster are better games.

I own all three. I do not know what quality standards you have but they are weird.

I agree with Ozy that the camera may be a problem, even if I think the other way around (I prefer to have total control over the camera).

 

[wazoo]

Still, I'm looking forward to Armada. I expect more difficulty and intensity this time, and less Slippy Toad

Orta was a bit letdown. Like someone said "For better or for worse, I expect more from games this generation." 8)

 

[Teasy]

Teasy, you totally missed the point of what I was saying. Re-read the statement in context with the posts preceding it, and then maybe you'll understand what I meant. It wasn't a statement about the quality of Orta at all.

Ok my mistake on that one.

Personally, I want a game's camera as simple as possible. Keep it behind me at all times please. Don't distract me with it.

Didn't you have a problem with Metroid Prime for that very reason though? That the camera just follows you without allowing you to move the camera independentally from the characters movement with a seperate stick (like a normal FPS)?

I heard about these camera 'problems' from certain people for a month or two before I managed to get SMS (being here in Europe). From the stuff I'd read I was expecting basically a almost totally manual camera, I was expecting to be annoyed by it. When I actually got SMS I found myself saying "Where are all these big problems with the camera, have they fixed the problems for the European release". Because the camera was fine 99% of the time. The I remerber getting similar, rare, problems with the camera in SM64. When it wasn't fine, in SMS, you could at least easily change the angle without having to hinder movement at all with the c-stick or you could just press the left trigger and it automatically centers the camera for you. Also the ability to move the camera was the bonus in itself. It really couldn't believe how much complaining I'd heard about this 'problem'.

The most damning thing for me was, I dunno, I guess I felt that SMS didn't really feel like a game that came out six years after Super Mario 64.

Wether SMS is as good as it should be being 6 years after SM64, or not, doesn't change how good a game it is by itself. It doesn't change the fact that its still either the best (IMO) or one of the best platformers today (for the massive majority of people). If you don't like the game for some reason then fine, but anyone can see its a AAA game.

BTW This is an instance of what I mentioned earlier in a post to someone else. Nintendo's games often get rated more harshley because they follow such, well for want of a better word 'perfect', games (like SM64).

 

[Teasy]

Oh, and Teasy, how am I an Xbox ?

I'm guessing that blank spot there is fan-boy being blocked right? Hmm, didn't I just say:

I didn't say he (Ozy) was a fan-boy

The Playstation2 is my favourite console this generation, by far. And furthermore I felt that Gamecube overall had a better 2002 than Xbox did.

Now carry on with your preconceived notions

My opinions on people are based on what I see them post, why would it be any other way?

 

[Logan Leonhart]

Teasy, there are no perfect games. I do agree with Ozy on the statement of reviewers seeing a Nintendo logo, and forgiving problems that otherwise would not be forgiven.

For example, OoT is touted as the best game ever. For me, it is an 8 at most, due to various factors, such as lack of challenge, lack of a good storytelling, uninspired environments and a hollow world (there was hardly anything in Hyrule).

However, I do disagree on Metroid Prime being overrated. Its controls are fine, in fact they lend them an entirely different feeling to the masses of uninspired FPS clones out there. It makes an emphasis on it being an action/adventure game. The AI was good enough, while not being the best in any game on the market, is fine as it is.I don´t see the problem with it.

 

[Tagrineth]

I doubt it. Orta has set the bar extremely high. And since Star Fox can't really match the visuals, art, and depth of universe that Panzer Dragoon has, it will be starting at a disadvantage before it even comes out.

Still, I'm looking forward to Armada. I expect more difficulty and intensity this time, and less Slippy Toad

See bold faced.

Uh... excuse me? Different != better. Orta is more fantasy, SF is more Sci-fi. SF64 has some of the smoothest graphics on the N64, consistently good-looking without being technically marvelous, AND the game has a high frame rate.

And no depth of universe? Right...

 

[wazoo]

For example, OoT is touted as the best game ever. For me, it is an 8 at most, due to various factors, such as lack of challenge, lack of a good storytelling, uninspired environments and a hollow world (there was hardly anything in Hyrule).

We know you would not have any problem if Square was considered as the best dev in the world.

 

[Blade]

Calm down, guys. Remember that everybody has their opinion!

For example.. Ozy likes JSRF and dislikes Mario Sunshine; it's vice-versa for me. Who's right? Both.. neither? There's no right or wrong with certain things.. like opinions on trivial matters like video games. SMS is a solid AAA game IMO, though.

That's as far as I'll go.

 

[Ozymandis]

Orta was a bit letdown. Like someone said "For better or for worse, I expect more from games this generation." 8)

What disappointed you about Orta specifically?

See bold faced.

Uh... excuse me? Different != better. Orta is more fantasy, SF is more Sci-fi. SF64 has some of the smoothest graphics on the N64, consistently good-looking without being technically marvelous, AND the game has a high frame rate.

And no depth of universe? Right...

What does SF64's graphics have to do with Armada? That was last gen. The Saturn was not a good 3d console compared to the n64, whereas the Xbox is more powerful generally than the Gamecube. You're going to be disappointed I think if you expect SF: Armada to look better than Panzer Dragoon: Orta


And let me reinterate that:

Compared to Panzer Dragoon, Star Fox doesn't have any depth in its game world.

Hell, compare the RPGs. Compare the shooters. Every creature, every vehicle, every level in Panzer is extremely deliberate and integrated into the series. Saga and Orta really expand on this with their encyclopedia and enemy digests. These elements meld together to create a deep universe. I just don't see that kind of thing from the Star Fox series.