Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[Shifty Geezer]

Would you say that VR & playing video games on a TV/Monitor is the same thing?

No.

Or if I just used a Head Mounted Display to play a normal game should I call it VR even though my head movements have no effect on what's happening in the virtual world?

That's the same difference between AR & MR because AR only has an affect on what's being displayed over the real world but MR is when your real world actions have an affect on what's being displayed & what happens in the virtual world.

AR games have had game interactions for as long as they've been around, including EyeToy Play, Eye of Judgement, EyePet, and Invisimals. AR covers everything from overlaying a little bit of information on a real-world scene, to incorporating virtual characters in a real environment and controlling them through real-life gestures and/or buttons on a controller. The games industry has been very comfortable with the definitions of AR and VR and I don't see a need to introduce another, redundant, term to separate passive AR from interactive AR.

 

[onQ]

No.

AR games have had game interactions for as long as they've been around, including EyeToy Play, Eye of Judgement, EyePet, and Invisimals. AR covers everything from overlaying a little bit of information on a real-world scene, to incorporating virtual characters in a real environment and controlling them through real-life gestures and/or buttons on a controller. The games industry has been very comfortable with the definitions of AR and VR and I don't see a need to introduce another, redundant, term to separate passive AR from interactive AR.

They are Mixed Reality games they feature AR because AR is a part of Mixed Reality. The other part of Mixed Reality is AV (Augmented Virtuality ) which is the part where you're interacting with the virtual world. When you have both it's Mixed Reality.

The virtual world being overlaid on the real world is AR but when I can manipulate the virtual world that's being overlaid on the real world it's Mixed Reality.



From EyeToys Wiki:

History
Marks's idea was to enable natural user interface and mixed reality video game applications using an inexpensive webcam, using the computational power of the PlayStation 2 to implement computer vision and gesture recognition technologies. He joined Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) that year, and worked on the technology as Special Projects Manager for Research and Development.[5][6]

From PlayStation Eye Wiki:

Applications
Like its predecessor, the EyeToy, the PlayStation Eye enables natural user interface and mixed reality video game applications through the use of computer vision (CV) and gesture recognition technologies implemented in the software.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They are Mixed Reality games they feature AR because AR is a part of Mixed Reality.

AR covers mixed reality. We don't need a third term as it's not confusing. VR means an environment created entirely in computer. AR is anything that incorporates reality. No-one's use of AR is going to confuse people into misunderstanding what they're talking about. If we mention an AR game for Morpheus were zombies come out of your living room windows, no-one going to scratch their head wondering what that means. In fact the only confusion to arise thus far is your first use of MR on this board where it had never been used before.

 

[SlimJim]

My 2 cents:

MR is when AR projected over your own FOV; you need to wear a HMD for the effect.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

My 2 cents:

MR is when AR projected over your own FOV; you need to wear a HMD for the effect.

Why's that different from AR? Google Glass overlaying details on your natural FOV is AR, right? Despite satisfying your definition for MR.

 

[SlimJim]

Why's that different from AR? Google Glass overlaying details on your natural FOV is AR, right? Despite satisfying your definition for MR.

Google glass doesn't really project things over your natural FOV: it's just a tiny screen in the corner of your eye.

If google glass were for example a translucent screen in glasses-glass; and if it could show things on that screen that are superimposed into your FOV, then yes; google glass could be used for MR.

Unfortunately it's just a tiny screen in the corner of your eye, at this moment in time at least

 

[onQ]

My 2 cents:

MR is when AR projected over your own FOV; you need to wear a HMD for the effect.

No that's still AR it becomes MR when you can interact with it.



AR is the Virtual World overlaying the real world AKA Augmenting Reality.

AV is when you (someone from the real world) interacts with the Virtual World. Things like moving your head to change the view in a game , Controlling avatar's hand movements with the PlayStation Move & even just petting Eyepet or waving your hands to change a menu that's all AV "Augmented Virtuality".


AR is the game affecting what you see/what appears to happen in the real world & AV is the real world (you ) affecting the virtual world with your movements. when you have them both together you have Mixed Reality.

 

[onQ]

I have a feeling that the PS4 light strip might actually be a functional part of Project Morpheus / PlayStation Move in the future. Maybe like the Wii's sensor bar or Kinects IR array. It could be sending out bright levels of IR in pulses that's not visible to the naked eye but easily seen by a IR sensor to be used for position tracking.

 

[3dilettante]

Sony said in May that the light bar was there for Morpheus.
It does not send out IR, however.

 

[onQ]

Sony said in May that the light bar was there for Morpheus.
It does not send out IR, however.

Didn't know that.

Edit: Are you sure they was talking about the PS4 light and not just the light on the DS4?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I have a feeling that the PS4 light strip might actually be a functional part of Project Morpheus / PlayStation Move in the future. Maybe like the Wii's sensor bar or Kinects IR array. It could be sending out bright levels of IR in pulses that's not visible to the naked eye but easily seen by a IR sensor to be used for position tracking.

That would also be easily seen by the teardowns that know every bit of hardware in there. There are no IR diodes or lasers. Also, what would the point of illuminating with IR be without an IR camera?

 

[Nesh]

I am quite curious how would the light strip help morpheus? The console can be placed anywhere on the entertainment setup. It can be hidden in a fixture or somewhere plainly visible. The console is static and the player does nothing interactive with the console.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm pretty sure it's just cosmetic, with an ancillary function of error lights. Just like the 4-light arrangement on XB360.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm pretty sure it's just cosmetic, with an ancillary function of error lights. Just like the 4-light arrangement on XB360.

Me too. The PS4 is designed to be placed in different orientations so visibility of any particular side can't be a given. Mine is a entertainment centre with darkened glass and the light strip is very hard to see.

 

[3dilettante]

Didn't know that.

Edit: Are you sure they was talking about the PS4 light and not just the light on the DS4?

I thought you were calling the DS4's light bar by a different name.
No, the status lights on the box are unlikely to have any significant function. An IR emitter of any sort would have been picked up very quickly in the teardowns, the LEDs we do see aren't tied to anything that fancy, and the way the light goes through a layer of plastic may mean it would not allow the output from one to pass through.

 

[onQ]

That would also be easily seen by the teardowns that know every bit of hardware in there. There are no IR diodes or lasers. Also, what would the point of illuminating with IR be without an IR camera?

The LEDs in the PS4/DS4/PS Move are multi colored LEDs that cover the full color spectrum. I'm not sure if the people doing the teardowns would be able to just look at the LED & know that it's not able to emit infrared. Project Morpheus hasn't been released yet & neither has a new PlayStation Move controller for PS4 who is to say that they won't have IR sensors? Besides it doesn't have to be emitting IR to be used as a reference point.

Example: PS4 light strip sends out pulse of light & the camera reads how long it took for that pulse of light to reflect back.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The LEDs in the PS4/DS4/PS Move are multi colored LEDs that cover the full color spectrum. I'm not sure if the people doing the teardowns would be able to just look at the LED & know that it's not able to emit infrared.

It's easy enough to test if they emit IR or not. Perhaps they missed it, but logic shows there's no IR LED in there (certainly not capable of significant output).

Project Morpheus hasn't been released yet

It's not even finalised!

Besides it doesn't have to be emitting IR to be used as a reference point.

It would need to have a specific visible position though, which isn't a requirement of the setup. Sony have no idea what position or orientation the console is, or even if it's visible at all. If they want to go that route with an illumination source, they should (and would) use a Wii-like LED array on a wire that can be positioned independent of the console.

Example: PS4 light strip sends out pulse of light & the camera reads how long it took for that pulse of light to reflect back.

You're describing a Kinect-like TOF camera which needs amazingly fast sensors. It's completely unnecessary. Sony have a very robust and affordable visual triangulation system coupled with MEMS. They have illumination on the headset for tracking relative to the PS camera, and the same with Move tracking. It's more accurate than TOF and lower latency, and cheaper.

 

[onQ]

It's easy enough to test if they emit IR or not. Perhaps they missed it, but logic shows there's no IR LED in there (certainly not capable of significant output).

It's not even finalised!
It would need to have a specific visible position though, which isn't a requirement of the setup. Sony have no idea what position or orientation the console is, or even if it's visible at all. If they want to go that route with an illumination source, they should (and would) use a Wii-like LED array on a wire that can be positioned independent of the console.

You're describing a Kinect-like TOF camera which needs amazingly fast sensors. It's completely unnecessary. Sony have a very robust and affordable visual triangulation system coupled with MEMS. They have illumination on the headset for tracking relative to the PS camera, and the same with Move tracking. It's more accurate than TOF and lower latency, and cheaper.

It could be a case of forward thinking knowing that there might be a case where knowing the location of the PS4 will come in handy.We can't forget that Phones /Tablets & PlayStation Vita are also going to be a big part of PS4.

 

[MrFox]

Randon tought: The magical part of the Move controller was the magnetometer. It was a wacky solution and the only way to have 1:1 orientation. The DS4 and Morpheus don't have it anymore, because the stereo camera combined with the shape of the front led are solving the problem. Of all the sensors required for low latency 1:1 mapping, the magnetometer was the least robust and the only one that required recalibration, I'm glad they found a way to get rid of it.

Occulus latest dev kit copied the old Move method with a single camera and magnetometers to fix the orientation. Maybe the next devkit will have a stereo camera, and ditch the magnetometers.

 

[DieH@rd]

However, camera of Oculus works at 60fps, which is much slower than magnetometer in Move. We don't know the speed of the camera that PS4 uses for detecting Morpheus/DS4.