Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[onQ]

I think Project Morpheus without a camera or at least a see though display will be a mistake in the long run.

I say this because I think full on VR will be a little bit too overwhelming for most people to enjoy for long periods of time. At some point you're going to want to see what's going on in the real world around you but you don't want to have to remove the headgear every time you want to look into the real world. With a view to the real world /MR it will make things more comfortable plus open up the door to even more types of games.

 

[SlimJim]

oh so like Crysis 9 VR edition. The player is seeing through nanomachine eyes inside the helmet so those optical effects still need to be simulated. Especially every time an EMP hit the nanosuit

exactly!

Or a mech type of game where you control a robot.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think Project Morpheus without a camera or at least a see though display

A see through display breaks the VR immersion.

I say this because I think full on VR will be a little bit too overwhelming for most people to enjoy for long periods of time. At some point you're going to want to see what's going on in the real world around you but you don't want to have to remove the headgear every time you want to look into the real world. With a view to the real world /MR it will make things more comfortable plus open up the door to even more types of games.

Don't know that I agree. People can play conventional games sat for hours in front of a TV. As VR is the ultimate escapism, I'd expect people wouldn't settle down to some VR gaming until they are free to do so, so not in the middle of daily life where they still have to interact with other people but at night when everyone's gone to bed, sort of thing.

A camera and mic is a good idea though. Although these will be present on the console watching you in Morpheus's case, so they could just switch to that camera and have you seeing yourself. Maybe this is part of the reason for PS4's stereo cameras? It'll provide a stereo picture for viewing oneself on a stereo headset.

 

[onQ]

A see through display breaks the VR immersion.

Don't know that I agree. People can play conventional games sat for hours in front of a TV. As VR is the ultimate escapism, I'd expect people wouldn't settle down to some VR gaming until they are free to do so, so not in the middle of daily life where they still have to interact with other people but at night when everyone's gone to bed, sort of thing.

A camera and mic is a good idea though. Although these will be present on the console watching you in Morpheus's case, so they could just switch to that camera and have you seeing yourself. Maybe this is part of the reason for PS4's stereo cameras? It'll provide a stereo picture for viewing oneself on a stereo headset.

Not fully see through but a technology that would enable you to see out into the real world when needed like how 3D glasses are able to show a different view to each eye but use that tech to block the visible light from coming in & out of the display at will.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I believe that exists in one headset with LCD shutters behind a transparent screen, but you'd probably want an opaque screen for best quality. A camera would be the most obvious solution - two for stereoscopy. A couple of mobile phone cameras could be included nicely, but I'm not sure the cost, not matter how low, would really be worth it. You'd need a lot of natural test cases that show it's a required feature.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I believe that exists in one headset with LCD shutters behind a transparent screen, but you'd probably want an opaque screen for best quality. A camera would be the most obvious solution - two for stereoscopy. A couple of mobile phone cameras could be included nicely, but I'm not sure the cost, not matter how low, would really be worth it. You'd need a lot of natural test cases that show it's a required feature.

That could open up significant new applications though in terms of augmented reality. Especially as technology moves forward and the headsets get both smaller and wireless.

EDIT - in fact... I may be getting ahead of myself here but with a pair of high resolution cameras and screen, would such a setup not have the potential to provide superior distance vision for long sighted people? I'm not suggesting it replace glasses or anything but it would be a pretty interestng side effect if I were to look at the real world in stereoscopic 3D through my VR headset and see everything clearer than through my own eyes (I'm very mildly long sighted and don't wear glasses).

 

[onQ]

I believe that exists in one headset with LCD shutters behind a transparent screen, but you'd probably want an opaque screen for best quality. A camera would be the most obvious solution - two for stereoscopy. A couple of mobile phone cameras could be included nicely, but I'm not sure the cost, not matter how low, would really be worth it. You'd need a lot of natural test cases that show it's a required feature.

I wouldn't say that it's needed but in my case it would make a difference in me being interested in Project Morpheus or not.

Not only will the cameras be good for MR it will also help with VR since it will be closer to your hands than the PlayStation 4 camera with a view from behind them giving the motion tracking more accuracy for controller free gaming.

 

[Gradthrawn]

I think you guys are trying to over engineer a solution. If I'm not mistaken the screen portion of the Morpheus can tilt up above the eyes, while keeping the head unit itself on. That's a 50 cent mechanical solutions that gives users at the press of a button a quick release from the enclosed view of the headset without taking it off if they are so inclined.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think you guys are trying to over engineer a solution. If I'm not mistaken the screen portion of the Morpheus can tilt up above the eyes, while keeping the head unit itself on. That's a 50 cent mechanical solutions that gives users at the press of a button a quick release from the enclosed view of the headset without taking it off if they are so inclined.

That's certainly true of a patent Sony filed for their medical headset.

 

[Gradthrawn]

That's certainly true of a patent Sony filed for their medical headset.

Ah, perhaps that's what I'm thinking of.

 

[onQ]

I think you guys are trying to over engineer a solution. If I'm not mistaken the screen portion of the Morpheus can tilt up above the eyes, while keeping the head unit itself on. That's a 50 cent mechanical solutions that gives users at the press of a button a quick release from the enclosed view of the headset without taking it off if they are so inclined.

But what about the MR stuff that a camera would add to the VR headset?

Imagine a mixed reality Resident Evil like game where the PS4 wouldn't have to render the full environment only rendering the monsters coming into your real room through a door or window that's superimposed onto you real room, or making it appear that they are breaking through your walls as you try to keep them out by killing them and patching up the holes?

 

[Gradthrawn]

But what about the MR stuff that a camera would add to the VR headset?

Interesting prospects, but at first blush they seem ultimately limited by the wired nature of the headset (or the range of a wireless version) along with the limited field of view and tracking range of the PS Camera. Essentially you're talking about an experience limited to a single room since the Morpheus is tethered to the PS4 that's bound to a small part of an individual room that's within range of the PS Camera (by my current understanding the head unit's sensors alone aren't enough to handle head tracking). Personally, I'd much rather the money that would have to go towards supporting MR go towards a higher quality display. If there's still room in the budget even after that, it might be better served in integrating their eye tracking tech into the unit. Hardware to support MR would be a fourth order priority for me for Morpheus (but that's just me).

Spoiler

That said, it could be superb for certain types of... adult entertainment.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Ah, perhaps that's what I'm thinking of.

Well there's nothing stopping them adding that to Morpheus. It's a WIP after all.

Interesting prospects, but at first blush they seem ultimately limited by the wired nature of the headset (or the range of a wireless version) along with the limited field of view and tracking range of the PS Camera.

OnQ means a camera in the headset and VR. I think. I'm not sure what he means by MR and if he's making the distinction from AR or not. With dual mobile cameras superimposing reality with the game world, you could create some interesting experiences, but they'd be very niche. Like EyeToy Play games. Lots of pop and wow, but ultimately no longevity and no broad application.

 

[dumbo11]

OnQ means a camera in the headset and VR. I think. I'm not sure what he means by MR and if he's making the distinction from AR or not. With dual mobile cameras superimposing reality with the game world, you could create some interesting experiences, but they'd be very niche. Like EyeToy Play games. Lots of pop and wow, but ultimately no longevity and no broad application.

I think the MS fortaleza idea was somewhat similar to that - although that project seems to have vanished without a trace.

 

[Gradthrawn]

OnQ means a camera in the headset and VR. I think. I'm not sure what he means by MR and if he's making the distinction from AR or not. With dual mobile cameras superimposing reality with the game world, you could create some interesting experiences, but they'd be very niche. Like EyeToy Play games. Lots of pop and wow, but ultimately no longevity and no broad application.

Yeah, the assumption I made is a camera in the headset, with its view being fed to the PS4, and the PS4 feeding the video stream and the super imposed rendered content back to the VR's display. Unless the camera in the headset can provide the same data to correct the headset's sensor data (drift in the sensors I think its called) the external camera is still needed and as such your movement is limited to within the camera's viewing angle. Even if it can correct it, there's still the limitation of staying within range of the PS4 (be it wired or wireless range).

Ultimately, mobility of the headset is limited. If the headset's mobility is limited, so to is the area or room it can use to superimpose images on. We're quite possibly looking at an experience limited to a single room, the room you're in with your PS4. Probably great for certain types of experiences, but that seems like an incredibly limiting factor and therefore an element that should get lower financial priority when it comes to budgeting what to put money into for the Morpheus (in my uneducated opinion, that is). Unless I'm missing something (which is not only entirely possible but highly likely). I think perhaps it would be a much better fit for a mobile VR solution where all of the processing is in the headunit and its a standalone device (something like Samsung's rumored device).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah, the assumption I made is a camera in the headset, with its view being fed to the PS4, and the PS4 feeding the video stream and the super imposed rendered content back to the VR's display. Unless the camera in the headset can provide the same data to correct the headset's sensor data (drift in the sensors I think its called) the external camera is still needed and as such you're movement is limited to within the camera's viewing angle.

Oh, okay. I agree with everything you said. The experience is confined to the room, making it the only scene for the game to take place. It'll get old pretty quick. Lots of novelty factor, but little longevity. That sort of AR is better served by a device designed for it, with everything local to the headset such as Samsung's upcoming phone based one. You could wander anywhere with that. I suppose they ought to add stereoscopic cameras on the back of the phone.

 

[rockaman]

I think that not all games Morpheus supports will have AR.

This Morpheus can kind of double as two solutions. It gives everyone who buys it a 3D capable device, even if they don't own a 3D TV. And it gives possibility of VR/AR experiences.

I'm kind of thinking it will act as a static 3D experience for say a game like Uncharted, if it has 3D support. And for other titles it may act as a VR/AR experience.

 

[onQ]

Well there's nothing stopping them adding that to Morpheus. It's a WIP after all.

OnQ means a camera in the headset and VR. I think. I'm not sure what he means by MR and if he's making the distinction from AR or not. With dual mobile cameras superimposing reality with the game world, you could create some interesting experiences, but they'd be very niche. Like EyeToy Play games. Lots of pop and wow, but ultimately no longevity and no broad application.

Mixed Reality.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Mixed Reality.

Right, but I don't know what that is. I've not heard of it before your use. From the sounds of it, it's AR rebranded. Googlage suggests as much. We've had AR games for a while now without renaming it MR. AR covers any combination of CG graphics incorporated into the real world and serves the job nicely without needing a third term that doesn't seem to make any distinction.

 

[onQ]

Right, but I don't know what that is. I've not heard of it before your use. From the sounds of it, it's AR rebranded. Googlage suggests as much. We've had AR games for a while now without renaming it MR. AR covers any combination of CG graphics incorporated into the real world and serves the job nicely without needing a third term that doesn't seem to make any distinction.

Would you say that VR & playing video games on a TV/Monitor is the same thing? Or if I just used a Head Mounted Display to play a normal game should I call it VR even though my head movements have no effect on what's happening in the virtual world?


That's the same difference between AR & MR because AR only has an affect on what's being displayed over the real world but MR is when your real world actions have an affect on what's being displayed & what happens in the virtual world.