Sony PlayStation cross-platform game strategy

[Rangers]

I don't get the meltdowns, there is zero disadvantage to the PS fans. There is a strong trend of PS games appearing on PC and that will only get more of that. PS gets them first most likely, PC will get them at a later date. I personally feel the PC is in a good position, it's the middle-land, get from both MS and Sony, and everything in between and native pc games, even projects like star citizen for the ones that are in to something like that. Emulators for the BC of old/retro consoles.
Controllers from consoles are just plug/play.

Overall lets say you look at the NPD top 20 best selling games of the last decade. There is not one Sony or MS exclusive even in the top 20

https://venturebeat.com/2020/01/16/the-top-20-best-selling-games-of-the-decade-in-the-u-s/

They also have the top 20 from 2000-2009. Halo is the only Sony/MS exclusive that makes it on there a couple times. Towards the lower ranks at 14 (Halo 3) and 18 (Halo 2).

For a while I've noticed third parties just seem to make better games. Take something as enormous as Cyberpunk. You simply would never see that kind of ambition as an exclusive. You just wouldn't. You get lower scale games as exclusives, linear, or now the linear but kinda limited open world stuff that is ubiquitous. The talk centers around exclusives but what people actually put endless hours into centers around third party, again maybe a small exception for Halo and it's MP component. Dont get me wrong, Sony has done great IMO expanding the market beyond core males with stuff like TLOU. This jives well with my personal experience, the only game I actually play a lot the last few years, Destiny, didn't come from MS or Sony. Also is an example of extreme ambition and resources.

What my point is in all this is I think the lessening of exclusivity as a "thing" will probably only benefit whoever does it. They'll reap more dollars, which allows more ambitious games, and in a way having to compete in a freer marketplace seems to push third party games to be better, and first party could benefit from that.

I also think both should recognize Switch is not their enemy, from a demographics/market standpoint. I think MS certainly has, to a small extent, but could go much further (such as the system would be a fit). MCC on Switch would be amazing (if possible technically).

I haven't even thought about the possibility of first party Sony/MS appearing on the opposite platform, if even possible. But I think releasing on Xbox or PS/PC/Switch (more if there's a fit) could be a good move eventually.

It's worth trying anyway. I'm on record with my thoughts Sony might be the one that should tread more carefully here.

In conclusion as usual, I dont know,

 

[Nesh]

Yup, if Sony were to start publishing all of their exclusives on PC, it's only positive for gamers, there is no downside from the perspective of a gamer. Whether it's a net benefit for Sony is, of course, arguable.

I dont think it is net positive. The console market has it's own kind of competition and it's own efforts to differentiate a product. This should reflect on the projects and the console gaming environment which my PC, despite being super powerful have not been able to replace. There is lack of identify, and quite frankly a lot of great games are what they are because they target the audience of the console market, multiplatform or not. We can imagine the games we see on console being poerted on PC and say "hey thats great", but these games are a result of a platform holder investing in specific ways to add value to a specific product experience which otherwise would not exist.
How many companies that produce games exclusively on PCs were providing that experience? I cant remember any. Without differentiation between console and PC, the consoles would be erased, the once platform holder that made games to form a specific identity and uniqueness of the platform views the market differently and projects are made differently.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There is also nothing to suggest that PS5 games will be ported to PC.

You're not going to get any info about that now even if it's on the cards. Sony aren't going to sabotage their PS5 release. However, the argument as to the long-term change is a sound one in an ever changing market with more competitors taking a shot at it.

At some point you will figure out no reasonable discussion will happen here.

One game means all of them, because it fits a narrative.

That's disingenuous to say the argument of more exclusive is unreasonable or some crazy narrative. Why do some people feel the need to fall-back on outright argument denial instead of debating the pros and cons of a theory? It's not like "Sony releasing future exclusive on PC in the long term" is flat-earther insane.

Do you think Sony are only going to release one game on PC? If they're going to release more, where's the line drawn and why? For that, we need to consider end-goal and long term vision.

 

[PSman1700]

I have a very powerful PC already. But I still prefer to have a separate healthy console ecosystem.

I am both a PS4 and PC gamer, i have zero problems with either's ECO system, both have their dis and advantages. More cheaters on PC perhaps, but more 'kids' on PS4 regarding online. Both work with patches, updates, and server trouble these days. Yes even day one patches have found their way on console.

In context, you also don't pay for it on pc. Steam still is a great platform where you can basically do everything you can on PS4. You can also add non-steam games to steam.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Another way to think of it ... If PS5 sells 100 million console units during its lifetime, is that enough units to recoup the costs of a first party game? If you reach 10 million copies sold (10% of the user base), is that enough? Is 15 million enough? If they're at 20 million console units after 1 year, is that a big enough market to recoup expenses on a first party launch title?

I doubt the sustainability of the console cycle, unless they can somehow expect that ps5 will outsell ps4 by a wide margin. I'm not sure that's realistic. Maybe it is, but that's a big bet. It seems to me that opening your software sales to a wider market is the best way to make the most money and making sure niche titles can break even.

 

[MrFox]

That's disingenuous to say the argument of more exclusive is unreasonable or some crazy narrative. Why do some people feel the need to fall-back on outright argument denial instead of debating the pros and cons of a theory? It's not like "Sony releasing future exclusive on PC in the long term" is flat-earther insane.

Do you think Sony are only going to release one game on PC? If they're going to release more, where's the line drawn and why? For that, we need to consider end-goal and long term vision.

I just went through browsing the over 70 pages on Era about this and it made me give up on the topic.

It's crazy to see that one rumor of a single old game to mean all of them as some sort of new business model. The step between one and all is insane. It's like seeing minecraft on ps4 meaning MS will now release halo,gear, forza, on ps4. Some did say that, and were called flat earther insane.

I am not saying it's unreasonable to think more will come strategically.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

I don't wanna say "I said it". But I actually did.

Sony acquires Insomniac Games

True, it only talks about MP titles. But again, it opens the door for other games to come. Death Stranding is a triple AAA title being published by Sony and there are strong rumours that it will be released on PC.

MS has already shifted to a dual release model for all their titles (understandable as they also own Windows), but there is really no reason for Sony to not expand their playerbase as much as they can. They can always release first their games on PS consoles and later on PC. Again, there is a lot of more money to be made on SW than on HW.

 

[Scott_Arm]

It's crazy to see that one rumor of a single old game to mean all of them as some sort of new business model. The step between one and all is insane. It's like seeing minecraft on ps4 meaning MS will now release halo,gear, forza, on ps4. Some did say that, and were called flat earther insane.

I am not saying it's unreasonable to think more will come strategically.

Well, the rumour is that one game is coming soon and more will come in the future. That said, I do think the idea that every game will hit pc on day one is not realistic.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Another way to think of it ... If PS5 sells 100 million units during its lifetime, is that enough units to recoup the costs of a first party game? If you reach 10 million, is that enough?

Yes. If it wasn't, they wouldn't do it. 10 million at an average selling profit of $20 is $200 million. HZD cost only "more than €45 million" so it's easily turned a nice profit by now. PC sales of that game are certainly about maximising ROI on that, and maybe even about spear-heading a move into the PC market. Remember, we're just discussing the rumour at this point. Sony haven't officially announced their plans yet. That big chunk of February info we're told to expect may include the announcement of PSStore for PC, selling PS games with PC versions, PSN integration, and the start of former PS exclusives, for all we know. We can't really interpret this move accurately for the short term without proper context, and the speculation here is pretty imaginative as a result.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well, the rumour is that one game is coming soon and more will come in the future. That said, I do think the idea that every game will hit pc on day one is not realistic.

The rumours solidly hint at Dreams coming too.

Again, there is a lot of more money to be made on SW than on HW.

The financials of the publishers seems to suggest otherwise. A successful, closed platform has proven far more profitable. However, software seems more stable. Sony's fortunes have waxed and waned across genereations, and a solid software-publisher base would help stabilise things. Perhaps, peak profits from the PS consoles will be lower, but variation between generations will be far less? Or maybe software sales will go from strength to strength?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Yes. If it wasn't, they wouldn't do it. 10 million at an average selling profit of $20 is $200 million. HZD cost only "more than €45 million" so it's easily turned a nice profit by now. PC sales of that game are certainly about maximising ROI on that, and maybe even about spear-heading a move into the PC market. Remember, we're just discussing the rumour at this point. Sony haven't officially announced their plans yet. That big chunk of February info we're told to expect may include the announcement of PSStore for PC, selling PS games with PC versions, PSN integration, and the start of former PS exclusives, for all we know. We can't really interpret this move accurately for the short term without proper context, and the speculation here is pretty imaginative as a result.

HZD is one of the top first party sellers of last gen, not next-gen. 45 million euro is actually pretty cheap, but doesn't that include all of the marketing and distribution costs for retail? There are also Sony titles like Dreams, which probably lose a lot of money, so something else needs to offset the cost. A game like God of War is probably in the 100-200 million range with marketing and everything on top of that.

What are next-gen games going to cost, because it only goes up and game prices do not. Is it 10% more? 30% more?

 

[MrFox]

The rumours solidly hint at Dreams coming too.
The financials of the publishers seems to suggest otherwise. A successful, closed platform has proven far more profitable. However, software seems more stable. Sony's fortunes have waxed and waned across genereations, and a solid software-publisher base would help stabilise things. Perhaps, peak profits from the PS consoles will be lower, but variation between generations will be far less? Or maybe software sales will go from strength to strength?

Dreams make a lot of sense, they need content creators, and it's a niche game needing exposure.

They might want to offer the Decima engine to third parties and smaller studios in exchange of console exclusivity, games which otherwise would be completely multi-platform. That worked well with Death Stranding, which otherwise would be everywhere and come much later.

Some multi player games need critical mass. That can be a good strategy there too.

HZD made it's money, and the sequel will have more weight with more people playng it. They need to have played the first game to be excited about the second. That one is clearly a gamble for more exposure to the franchise and drag PC gamers to ps5, it's not for a quick buck.

 

[bgroovy]

Sony releasing an over three year old game on PC and that leading to statements like yours of "Now it's started. Whether it takes one year or ten, PS as a console platform is going to change completely" as overreacting or reading to much into it but that's just me.

Yeah, I see this as Sony experimenting. Not even they know what this portends for the future because they are waiting to see the results.

Then why did none of these games get ported to Xbox?

Much of your list was JRPG games that always sell very poorly on Xbox platforms. Porting to Xbox is a losing proposition until Phil Spencer shows up with a check to cover the cost.

Their license terms required it.

The MLB begged for it.

 

[PSman1700]

drag PC gamers to ps5, it's not for a quick buck.

Don't think that is the strategy here. Probaly more along the lines of what MS is doing. Sony wants a larger market too.

 

[PSman1700]

I don't wanna say "I said it". But I actually did.

Sony acquires Insomniac Games

Basically what jayco said.

 

[DavidGraham]

It's crazy to see that one rumor of a single old game to mean all of them as some sort of new business model.

But it's not just one game is it? And it's not just gamers who are connecting these dots, but veteran journalists and some analysts as well. Heck even Sony said it in an official statement.

Anyway, it's clear that the discussion will go nowhere if people are willfully ignoring all the signs of a deliberate change of strategy by Sony. Let's get back to the discussion when Sony announces more PS games coming to PC ..

 

[PSman1700]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1218281617732468736

Somewhat relevant, it was a PS4 only title before, now appearing on PC (and switch) too. No xbox version. Announced yesterday 17th january.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

What my point is in all this is I think the lessening of exclusivity as a "thing" will probably only benefit whoever does it. They'll reap more dollars, which allows more ambitious games, and in a way having to compete in a freer marketplace seems to push third party games to be better, and first party could benefit from that.

Yup. I don't think routinely releasing console exclusive games on PC will materially impact the console industry. Consoles and PCs, while sharing a lot of technology DNA and common games, are generally serving different needs. I doubt there are many people genuinely unsure about whether to buy a PC or a console for gaming. Where console-exclusive games may retain their value is being a tipping-factor from this console or that console. If you're open minded and both consoles appeal, then exclusives may tip you one way or the other.

You're not going to get any info about that now even if it's on the cards. Sony aren't going to sabotage their PS5 release. However, the argument as to the long-term change is a sound one in an ever changing market with more competitors taking a shot at it.

I agree but I don't think one first-party Decima-engine game appearing on PC is a necessarily a sign of larger change at Sony. Decima supports two platforms; PlayStation and Windows - why or how the latter is even a thing I don't believe Sony or Guerrilla have clarified. An engine adding support for a whole different API (Direct3D) is a considerable undertaking and requires ongoing maintenance as Microsoft update their API and Windows itself. Decima is only used by a few Sony first party studios (that we know of) so unless Sony are going to mandate all their studios use Decima, or have all their studios using their own engines mandate ongoing support for Windows, conversations may be non-trivial.

What I think makes HZD more an experiment than a concerted change in future strategy is what we've heard about PS5's custom SSD and I/O solution. Mark Cerny has said enough to know that PS5 can pull data from storage way faster than any PC and even if/when this tech comes to PC, it will take a long, long time before it is prolific. If PS5 has some nutty fast SSD and I/O then first party games are going to use it and any game that is using for it anything more than just faster loading, such as pulling incredibly dense and detailed geometry and rendering a massive world that you can zoom through super fast, may not be able to run on Windows at all. So then is you strategy not to make games that can't work on Windows?

More Sony first-party PS4 exclusives appearing on Windows? Yeah.. if HZD sells decently. A sign that PS5 games will be coming to Windows? Not unless Sony intend to hamstring their first-party studios by not letting the use this new hardware they just made. Have stupider decisions been made by Sony?

edit: grammar inserted into pre-coffee post. also less typos!!!

 

[chris1515]

Yup. I don't think routinely releasing console exclusive games on PC will materially impact the console industry. Consoles and PCs, while sharing a lot of technology DNA and common games, are generally serving different needs. I doubt there are many people genuinely unsure about whether to buy a PC or a console for gaming. Where console-exclusive games may retain their value is being a tipping-factor from this console or that console. If you're open minded and both consoles appeal, then exclusives may tip you one way or the other.



I agree but I don't think one first-party Decima-engine game appearing on PC is a necessarily a sign of larger change at Sony. Decima supports two platforms; PlayStation and Windows - why or how the latter is even a thing I don't believe Sony or Guerrilla have clarified. An engine adding support for a whole different API (Direct3D) is a considerable undertaking and requires ongoing maintenance as Microsoft update their API and Windows itself. Decima is only used by a few Sony first party studios (that we know of) so unless Sony are going to mandate all their studios use Decima, or have all their studios using their own engines mandate ongoing support for Windows, conversations may be non-trivial.

What I think makes HZD more an experiment than a concerted change in future strategy is what we've heard about PS5's custom SSD and I/O solution. Mark Cerny has said enough to know that PS5 can pull data from storage way faster than any PC and even if/when this tech comes to PC, it will take a long, long time before it is prolific. If PS5 has some nutty fast SSD and I/O then first party games are going to use it and any game that is using for it anything more than just faster loading, such as pulling incredibly dense and detailed geometry and rendering a massive world that you can zoom through super fast, may not be able to run on Windows at all. So then is you strategy not to make games that can't work on Windows?

More Sony first-party PS4 exclusives appearing on Windows? Yeah.. if HZD sells decently. A sign that PS5 games will be coming to Windows? Not unless Sony intend to hamstring their first-party studios by not letting the use this new hardware they just made. Have stupider decisions been made by Sony?

edit: grammar inserted into pre-coffee post. also less typos!!!

The decime Engine port is using Vulkan not Direct X.

In this video of the technical director of Guerrilla Games. During Q&A he said the Décima engine will maybe soon support Vulkan.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The decime Engine port is using Vulkan not Direct X.

That makes more sense for platform diversity.

A quick google and I found project marshmallow in Github!