Sony PlayStation 5 Pro

[pjbliverpool]

I do wonder if Sonys ML upscaling solution is based on rumoured AMD solution that's releasing end of this year.

Maybe they worked on it together (maybe even with feedback from Sony studios) and Sony have tweaked it slightly to be a little more performant in a closed box, or it's something completely different.

But it would make sense for it to be shared technology and has many benefits for developing collaboratively such as shared development costs.

I speculated the same thing a few pages back. What I didn't realise at the time though is that Sonys ML capabilities in the Pro are according to the rumour "completely custom". Which would seem strange and rather pointless if RDNA 4 will be running the same or a very similar upscaling model.

There is the possibility though that the new ML functionality of RDNA4 simple wasn't ready in time for the Pro and so Sony had to go with a custom design - similar to the whole primitive shader vs mesh shader thing with PS5 and RDNA2.

 

[davis.anthony]

I speculated the same thing a few pages back. What I didn't realise at the time though is that Sonys ML capabilities in the Pro are according to the rumour "completely custom". Which would seem strange and rather pointless if RDNA 4 will be running the same or a very similar upscaling model.

There is the possibility though that the new ML functionality of RDNA4 simple wasn't ready in time for the Pro and so Sony had to go with a custom design - similar to the whole primitive shader vs mesh shader thing with PS5 and RDNA2.

Or PS5 Pro is using RDNA3 and needed to be modified to get close to RDNA4 ML performance?

 

[chris1515]

I speculated the same thing a few pages back. What I didn't realise at the time though is that Sonys ML capabilities in the Pro are according to the rumour "completely custom". Which would seem strange and rather pointless if RDNA 4 will be running the same or a very similar upscaling model.

There is the possibility though that the new ML functionality of RDNA4 simple wasn't ready in time for the Pro and so Sony had to go with a custom design - similar to the whole primitive shader vs mesh shader thing with PS5 and RDNA2.

This is not custom from Kepler statement maybe this is because again Sony took a custom feature set some from RDNA 3.5 and part RDNA 4(AI inference and RT).

I think fully custom means feature set you won't find in a PC counterpart mix of RDNA 1 and RDNA 2 for PS5 for example. Fully custom stuff are cache scrubber or ID buffer or the modification of the rasterizer for VR.

 

[davis.anthony]

1000% agreed, it would a waste of money and resources just to have better RT and nothing else to go with. It made sense with the Xbox One X, but Series X is plenty powerful, and the power battle doesn't matter here, it's a lost battle either way. So yeah, let them take their time to rethink another machine, but a future one with the Surface team.

To be honest, releasing a *new* Series-S and Series-X with higher clock speeds would be the best option in my opinion.

Series-X has always been really low clocked compared to other RDNA2 GPU's, clocking it to 2.2/2.3Ghz (or higher) on a new process node could gain them 30-35% which should nullify most of PS5 Pro's advantage is raster performance and completely wipe out base PS5, with the increase clocks you could be looking at 45-50% more performance (on paper at least) than base PS5.

That's what I would do if I were Microsoft, leave the PS5 Pro to do it's own thing and go after base PS5 by releasing higher clocked Series console and dropping the prices.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's not about how many TOPS you throw at the problem. An RTX 3050 has way less TOPS than any of those systems, but still achieves the full DLSS quality of a 4090. It's about the sophistication of the AI model. And Nvidia has a near half decade advantage over Sony in that regard to say nothing of the supercomputer training resources they must have available to throw at the problem.

On the flip-side, once someone else has pioneered, followers can often catch-up quickly because the ground work and early failures has already been done. Sony probably won't have to go through the whole DLSS1 learning experience. Think of it as how morphological AA solutions evolved thick and fast after MLAA first appeared. It's unlikely to be comparable to DLSS quality at launch, but it won't be five years behind either. Plus, outlier possibility, Sony have a solution that's pioneering something different that gives them an edge. We don't have details on what their ML streaming tech company they bought is doing, but that might translate into some great insight. Or maybe Insomniac we've an excellent track record in upscaling have brought something original that only game developers with game experience can bring versus a GPU giant who's mind is all about leveraging their power advantage.

In short, I don't expect the equal of current DLSS but I expect something capable enough and quite possibly 'on par' with DLSS given a sort of arbitrary qualifying of upscalers between good and bad.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

To be honest, releasing a *new* Series-S and Series-X with higher clock speeds would be the best option in my opinion.

Series-X has always been really low clocked compared to other RDNA2 GPU's, clocking it to 2.2/2.3Ghz (or higher) on a new process node could gain them 30-35% which should nullify most of PS5 Pro's advantage is raster performance and completely wipe out base PS5, with the increase clocks you could be looking at 45-50% more performance (on paper at least) than base PS5.

That's what I would do if I were Microsoft, leave the PS5 Pro to do it's own thing and go after base PS5 by releasing higher clocked Series console and dropping the prices.

Can we please stop with the MS talk in this PS5Pro thread? I'll clean up when I get chance.

 

[davis.anthony]

Can we please stop with the MS talk in this PS5Pro thread? I'll clean up when I get chance.

I appreciate what you're saying, so I'm going to respectfully raise that we stop talking about DLSS in a thread about PS5 Pro too.

 

[Karamazov]

any chance there is also some custom feature for frame generation ?

 

[davis.anthony]

any chance there is also some custom feature for frame generation ?

Maybe not custom per say, but with the ML performance they have it certainly is possible to have frame generation on the machine.

FSR3 proved that you don't need the optical flow accelerator that DLSS frame generation requires.

In fact that only thing that lets FSR3 down is the fact that it's using FSR2 input frames, which are poor quality.

You should be able to get a decent enough increase in quality just by feeding the FSR3 algorithm better input frames, which they should be able to do with PS5 Pro without the need for custom changes.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I appreciate what you're saying, so I'm going to respectfully raise that we stop talking about DLSS in a thread about PS5 Pro too.

Discussion about upscaling techniques seems inevitable as one of PS5Pro's elements is a new ML upscaling technique. DLSS just needs to be talked about only in context to how PSSR operates, as an existing reference point, alongside other techniques. We can't compare results until we see results, and speculating which is better has little value.

eg. Your subsequent post.

FSR3 proved that you don't need the optical flow accelerator that DLSS frame generation requires.

 

[RDGoodla]

I wonder if Final Fantasy Rebirth performance mode can be saved by Pro? It seems the blurriness in performance mode is due to low resolution of post processing. Is additional 45% performance enough to improve the post processing with the original resolution?

 

[Globalisateur]

I wonder if Final Fantasy Rebirth performance mode can be saved by Pro? It seems the blurriness in performance mode is due to low resolution of post processing. Is additional 45% performance enough to improve the post processing with the original resolution?

Ignoring the obviously PS3 textures spoiling some areas it's more likely caused by some very unefficient upscaling based on what we know (why is the game much sharper at 1440p than at 4K?). PSSR should totally solve the problem and it should be easily patchable as they use TAAU in that game.

 

[Dictator]

TAAU in that game.

They actually do not TMK! That is why is one reason why it looks so soft.

crtl + f "CPU".

I see no one is talking about the CPU? That is a pretty important thing.

 

[Shortbread]

I see no one is talking about the CPU? That is a pretty important thing.

Your thoughts on the matter?

What can we expect if the CPU is simply the current PS5 with slightly higher or slightly lower clocks?

What if, they improved the IPC and/or other deficiencies of the current PS5 CPU in a more bespoke fashion without the need to move to another and more current (or costly) Ryzen based SoC?

 

[Globalisateur]

They actually do not TMK! That is why is one reason why it looks so soft.

crtl + f "CPU".

I see no one is talking about the CPU? That is a pretty important thing.

TMK? What does this mean?

Well about the CPU most assume it will be the same CPU with a slight overclock. CPU is not needed as most games are heavily GPU (and RT) limited. This is a machine to run the same PS5 games at a much better image fidelity, not better framerate. In that area it will do a better job than PS4 Pro.

 

[davis.anthony]

They actually do not TMK! That is why is one reason why it looks so soft.

crtl + f "CPU".

I see no one is talking about the CPU? That is a pretty important thing.

Because the CPU isn't worth talking about as it only seems to be a simple clock increase?

Only thing to note is the improvement in CPU performance isn't enough to get to 60fps if your CPU limited below 45fps on base PS5.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

TMK? What does this mean?

Touch my kitten

I think ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[davis.anthony]

TMK? What does this mean?

To my knowledge.

 

[GhostofWar]

TMK

To My Knowledge.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

To My Knowledge.

For when AFAIK is too much typing.