Sony pisses off Korean developers

[mckmas8808]

Translated and received from the GAF. Please read carefully.

With Sony announcing that the PS3’s online support will be similar to Microsoft’s, it is only natural for the Japanese electronics giant to approach Korea’s online gaming industry for help. South Korea boasts one of the strongest online gaming communities globally. Sony Computer Entertainment Japan and KIPA (a Korean government agency that promotes IT) co-organized a business proposal PS3 event for developers in Korea.

The meeting didn’t go as planned and ended in a heated Q&A. Korean developers were upset and offended. Kotaku reader Torokun kindly provided us with a translation of the main issues:

1). KIPA and SCEJ will provide the entire development cost for an online PS3 title. The project will be funded up to the Alpha version. Moreover, the PS3 tool kit and support will be provided. There’s also an option for the team to become a first party developer. The game will be published under SCE in Japan. A worldwide release will follow. Korean developers were pleased with these terms. (The remaining ones pissed ‘em off.)

2). Even if the prototype of the game is finished, the quality or marketability could be deemed “low” (a subjective term not clarified by either Sony or KIPA), the entire development cost would need to be paid to KIPA.

3). Since the game is slated for the PS3, the entire rights including the source code would be owned by Sony — regardless of whether the title is published or not.

4). If the game is successful and a sequel is made, Sony will own all rights to the title.

5). When the game is released, all initial profit will go to the SCEJ to cover the development cost. After that is paid off, Sony and the development team would divide the remaining profit. However, at what percentage the development team starts to receive profit cannot presently be revealed

So to the game devs like Mr. Wibble, DeanoC, and others what do you think of this deal. Some people say Sony are treating the Koreans like slaves (not technically but you know what I'm saying), while others think that it's a decent deal for a start up company.

What say you?

Link
http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=36678&category=102&subcategory




I know rough day for Sony huh?

 

[dukmahsik]

that's just a horrible deal

 

[pipo]

Dunno. They take the risks right?

 

[Moonblade]

So basically, both KIPA and sony lend the money + they try to secure the korean IP's exclusive for PS3 with these rules (rights to the title, source code, etc...).

 

[rabidrabbit]

that's just a horrible deal

Why?
You can't expect them to throw the money into the development (give devkits and support for free, fund the development in the beginning...) and not expect anything in return.
What if the developer does not finish the game, basically just takes the money and run?
What if the developer makes a very low quality game, spending most of the money not on the game but on company parties and booze?

Sony's basically lending the money and support to small devs, of course they must pay back.

You can argue about points 3 and 4, though as I have no idea what is the normal trend in these matters I keep my mouth shut.

 

[Moonblade]

You can argue about points 3 and 4, though as I have no idea what is the normal trend in these matters I keep my mouth shut.

I don't know how gaming companies usually handle this but I do know it works the same way in the pharmaceutical industry with patents.
Ofcourse the difference is, those scientists are working for a company while sony is only lending them money.

 

[Nicked]

that's just a horrible deal

EVERY SINGLE IP that a console maker pays to be developed will always be owned by them unless that developer is AAA and has a fantastic relationship with the company. Its a fucking great deal for a startup company or a PC company looking to get in on the console market with zero risk.

What should the deal have been? Pay for development, publishing and marketing and let them keep the IP which you've just had them create? Sony aren't stupid. They are taking a lot of risk on so there will have to be rewards. They aren't a charity. They're helping themselves, PS3 and the developers.

I wonder what la-la-land anyone who criticizes this has been living in. I bet no one could come up with an example of a better deal.

 

[one]

It seems there's zero difference from the Yaroze amateur/semi-professional competition in Japan in which source code and such all belong to SCE even though a project goes nowhere.

 

[bystander]

Here's what I can I can see as the rationale behind each of the bad points.

2. You could argue this is to make sure development costs stay on target and that "low" quality or marketability element is just an excuse if they feel a project is getting out of hand?

3. Sony (& Kipa) have pretty paid the majority of the development, so they'll want some reassurance that the developers won't go off and use the tech they've built for someone else. Would it make a difference if Sony only owned the source code and not the rights to the title? Or vice versa.

4. Can't see a good rationale for this point other than profit IMO. (Understable none the less)

5. The only issue is how the profits will be split. Without that info it's hard to say how bad this would be. (but it's probably not going to be in the developer's favour IMO).

I guess the biggest issue is the loss of the rights and source code. Perhaps it would be better if Sony only owned either the source code or rights and not both. (after all they're not paying for the entire cost of it, at least not initially).

Just my few cents.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If this deal doesn't allow independent publishing, is whack. It's a good deal for startup, and it's usual for publishers to take ownership and control of IPs etc. But the devs should have a choice of whether to publish through SCE or an alternative. It sounds like Sony are positioning themselves as the only online PS3 publishers in Korea and will take all the profits from a big industry out there (and releae the programs worldwide too potentially). For the programmers, they could potentially find themselves a cushy occupation writing games and getting paid even if they're crap and never get published!

It could be that the terms are just sounding more strict than they are. It lays down the rules but Sony are free to act on them as they choose. eg. The selection of good and bad games from the alpha developments leaves devs thinking all their hard work may be scrapped, but the actually qualification process might pass 95% of games. Likewise the statement gaurentees division of profits but not what percentage. 10:90 in favour of Sony would annoy the devs, but 60:40 probably wouldn't. It's a shame the article only posts the points of the development plan without any of the questions or criticsms from the audience so we know what their beef is.

 

[Urian]

Is Hiroshi Yamauchi working now for Sony?

 

[Nicked]

If this deal doesn't allow independent publishing, is whack. It's a good deal for startup, and it's usual for publishers to take ownership and control of IPs etc. But the devs should have a choice of whether to publish through SCE or an alternative.

Not if SCE is paying for the development they shouldn't.

Sony aren't stopping Korean developers making MMOs with other publishers for PS3.

 

[one]

(after all they're not paying for the entire cost of it, at least not initially).

KIPA pays all of prototype development cost, then SCE WWS pays all of subsequent development cost according to http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/news/2006/02/08/150.html so they are paying the entire cost of it. Apparently those who apply to this system submit only their project plan which is just a paper.

 

[EndR]

Isn´t this something that everybodys favorite company does with the likes of... Mistwalker (Blue dragon, lost odyseey), BBB (Fable)... to name a few?

 

[Nicked]

KIPA pays all of prototype development cost, then SCE WWS pays all of subsequent development cost according to http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/news/2006/02/08/150.html so they are paying the entire cost of it. Apparently those who apply to this system submit only their project plan which is just a paper.

Hefty costs fronted and full development support from Sony and KIPA? Evil.

Isn´t this something that everybodys favorite company does with the likes of... Mistwalker (Blue dragon, lost odyseey), BBB (Fable)... to name a few?

But Sony are evil!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sony aren't stopping Korean developers making MMOs with other publishers for PS3.

That's the bit I was wondering. As long as developers have a choice to go through a funded programme or the traditional way, there's nothing to complain about. Well, they can complain but it doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[Sct I/On]

Isn't this the same event that was described and threaded here already, one of the earlier thread links http://videogamerx.gamedonga.co.kr/bbs/view.php?id=vx01&no=11377 only shows pre-conference empty seats:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28399

 

[Farid]

It's just a producing/publishing deal in cooperation with the Korean government.

What's supposed to piss of all Korean developers, exactly?

The producer of any title does always require to receive all the rights on the IP and on the code.
If the dev houses do not accept the terms of the contract, they just pass their way and look for others publishing/producing deals.

It's not like it's mandatory for them to work for this particular publisher (SCE/KIPA).

 

[Sct I/On]

I personally think it's got a lot to do with national pride, Japanese and Korean haven't been historically in that good terms with each other. Now if I've understood even a bit right from good ol' Babelfish translations of various Korean forums they fear that "brain drain" effect will happen on Korean computer entertainment market and this big Japanese company will reap most of the rewards, the cream of the crop so to speak, on both PS3 and PC sectors. You could think Sony might use by time the gained IP also on PSP and so on.

It may not be the most flourishing business model for the biggest game companies in South Korea but the smaller ones should surely benefit to certain degree from such a WA! deal

 

[Titanio]

The only bit I think they're pissed about:

"2). Even if the prototype of the game is finished, the quality or marketability could be deemed “lowâ€￾ (a subjective term not clarified by either Sony or KIPA), the entire development cost would need to be paid to KIPA."

If they're talking about the dev team paying back the cost to KIPA.

Otherwise the rest sounds pretty par for the course in this industry. Developers are often not in a very strong position when it comes to negotiating deals with publishers. It's usually very difficult for individual developers to hold on to their IP, for example.