Does anyone remember last year when MS showed off demoes that were 7 Months away from final product at E3? They were buggy and looked like crap. Now the games look great. Reserving judgement is what I recommend everyone do here, especially since these game demoes were built on pre-RSX dev kits and finished by Dec 2005.
Sony @ GDC: Phil Harrison's Keynote
- Thread starter Titanio
- Start date
Titanio said:
Oh, trust me...from the little pictures floating around, it looks what they've shown was great stuff. But we have some bitter people around here hanging on every flaw and the fact that is doesn't look exactly like CGI. Why they would dwell on what so obviously has been PR speak by every company for the last 10 years is beyond me, but people do.
expletive said:
And again, you're missing the point - the point being that there are no gamers at this event wanting to see and play games. This is a conference on the technical side of things, one that during a key-note speach probably is better suited with technical demonstrations rather than a session of gameplay (this is what rifles I was replying to was clearly implying to be looking for, hence my reply to him). I'll have to question what's so valid about it, other than trying to fuel an argument or flamebaiting.
Again, the things being presented and leaking out to the game sites from shaky handycam footage to mobile phone pictures are most likely being taken out of context. Most of the footage we're seeing from them have some kind of keynote/speech attached to them - information we're most likely not even hearing to help us quantify what the footage is showing and what it's trying to represent. Looking at them and expecting some kind of game or representative footage is clearly not a very good start.
I say, take the footage for what it is (being leaked footage of some keynote representing something) and
1.) wait for either full keynotes+footage (visual+audio) to better understand what's being shown or
2.) wait for more footage released that's targeted at the end user as will be shown at E3
Shifty Geezer said:
It really isn't that hard (or exciting) if done properly, see for example http://www.markmark.net/clouds/index.html.
[maven] said:
Nice link, but it doesn't really sound like what Incognito was talking about..(?)
Also, FWIW, Factor5 seems to be MIA. Apparently while that session is on GDC's website, it's not on any of the conference's schedules at the show itself. A guy on GAF who was planning to attend the presentation relayed this, he says he'll ask about it at F5's booth. Sounds a little like it might have been pulled at the last minute though
scooby_dooby
Legend
You're missing the point. There are people in this thread like Titanio taking these demo's as some sort of proof of capabilities that couldn't be done on 360, that's the issue.Phil said:
Phil, everything you said is correct, but your preaching to the choir here.
Yes this is for developers, yes they are demo's and are not intended to be representative of gameplay which also means that they these can not be compared to real xbox 360 games, therefore they(sony) have not show anything to differentiate from the competition, as they haven't even shown real games.
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scooby_dooby
Legend
Your opinion is very clearly cut, extremely pro-sony ike always.Titanio said:
"His point was that what Sony had shown wasn't any better than what MS had shown to date. Judging by descriptions of the likes of Motorstorm, I'd disagree.."
You're so ready to believe what you want to. You feel the PS3 has somehow differentiated itself from 360 which I find hilarious considering that a) these arent even real games and aren't intended to be taken as such (as phil pointed out) and b) you haven't even seen the demos for yourself.
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scooby_dooby said:
From the sounds of it, it has, vs what we've seen on 360 to date. I made all of this abundantly clear, but this is NOT about 360 capability, what it will or could play host to going forward - at least not yet - but what it has played host to to date. This was in response to another poster, who working with as much or as little as I have to work with, or anyone of us here, made the opposite point, that it sounded like Sony had not shown anything different to what MS had shown (not only to date, seemingly, but even vs what MS showed early in 360's gestation!). Yet I did not see you protest then..
Please read and comprehend my posts more carefully.
All of these demos I referenced were from upcoming games.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Obviously what PS3 is showing now is alot better than what 360 showed at E3, you can easily tell that by the impressions. However you're taking it much further than that, stating multiple times that in your opinion, having not even seen the demo's, that you feel PS3 has differentiated itself from what 360 has shown to date.Titanio said:
I just find that laughable. There's just no way you can make that claim at this point, after we've seen real in-game footage then we can have the debate about whether it's truly 'differentiating' itself..
scooby_dooby said:
I've yet to see anything on 360 that's like what is described of Motorstorm, as one example, in terms of the level of environmental interaction and its physicality. Of course, I'm relying on descriptions and a small photo, but some of those descriptions are go into quite a bit of detail on the dynamics at play there. I'm repeating myself now, but somehow I have to reiterate that I stand by that opinion, just for you
Titanio, for the most part you are very even keeled on these boards (even if with an obvious preference).
I really don't know if we can go for the next 8 mos (or even 2) under the assumption that these demos are wholly representative of what PS3 has to offer in actual game play and how it is in some way differentiating itself from 360; which is what I have inferred from some of the posts here.
We need to see real games to decide that and posturing about someone else's opinions on what they have seen is futile. I really doubt that we will see anything more than these types of demos at E3, with a few fleshed out games as it is in sony's best interest not to show too much. It is a completely unfair comparison until November 11th 2006, IMO.
I love advancements in technology as much as the next guy and I want to own the best system too, but the jury is still out on if we have a clear cut advantage from either system yet.
I really don't know if we can go for the next 8 mos (or even 2) under the assumption that these demos are wholly representative of what PS3 has to offer in actual game play and how it is in some way differentiating itself from 360; which is what I have inferred from some of the posts here.
We need to see real games to decide that and posturing about someone else's opinions on what they have seen is futile. I really doubt that we will see anything more than these types of demos at E3, with a few fleshed out games as it is in sony's best interest not to show too much. It is a completely unfair comparison until November 11th 2006, IMO.
I love advancements in technology as much as the next guy and I want to own the best system too, but the jury is still out on if we have a clear cut advantage from either system yet.
But they're game demos. The Motorstorm demo is a demo of the game they are working on. The Warhawk Demo is a demo of a game in progress. This isn't like the Duck and Head and other demos of PS2 that were created to to show special effects. These are the game creators showing what they're creating as they make their games. The hours they putting in to what's being shown arew the same hours they're putting in to writing their PS3 games. It's not like Warhawk is going to have Cell created clouds and Next-gen AI and such developed for it to show at GDC, only for that to disappear in the final game. There was fair argument about what was shown at E3 because that wasn't realtime. This stuff is and it's what I expect to be getting in the final games, save maybe a few slight changes here and there, mostly I expect for the better given another 6+ months of development.scooby_dooby said:
Tap In - Shifty pretty much covered it. You can believe that what was shown was pointless R&D on the part of these developers aimed simply at "showing MS up" for select audiences at conferences, or that the balance of probability lies on such stuff not looking as good on final (more powerful) hardware and with several months of development time to go, but without sufficient reason to believe so, I don't subscribe to that theory at all, in these cases, at least for now.
Also, this is all irrelevant to the original point. The poster I was originally responding to was drawing comparison with all Sony showed yesterday, and didn't seem too concerned for its status as game/production code or not (which most of it was, or so Harrison pointed out with most of the demos). It seems fair in responding to that point, I would also address "what Sony showed yesterday".
Also, this is all irrelevant to the original point. The poster I was originally responding to was drawing comparison with all Sony showed yesterday, and didn't seem too concerned for its status as game/production code or not (which most of it was, or so Harrison pointed out with most of the demos). It seems fair in responding to that point, I would also address "what Sony showed yesterday".
Titanio said:
agreed that this thread has it's share of noise form people who just want to reduce PS3 compared to 360 and I see where you went with that.
Also, I hope you are right and that PS3 is noticably more powerful and games are more interactive and animations and AI are more refined than X360.
It will be a pleasure to play those games.
OTOH, I'm going to wait and see for myself in November before jumping to conclusions.
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