So, what happens if Xbox2 hardware ends up inferior to NES5?
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Grall said:
speaking of which what chipset was the cpu based off? I remember specifically being told it was derived from the G4 "FX" chip line. If so then its quite possible they needed the CPU "upgrade" for processing graphical data. Last i checked the FX core clocked at around 450 falls below the processing power of the p3 600.
Also the GPU's speed was downgraded most likely because it was unstable.
london-boy said:Legion, i think u're speed-reading the posts, cause u replied twice already contesting things Megadrive and I said, then basically confirming our points
actually no i would say quite to the contrary. You both are reading into what i have said a comparison between systems. I stated Nintendo wouldn't deliver on having a superior system as a response to Fox's scenerio.
You know this how? What does that have to do with my point?
Perhaps not those but then i did mention the FF movie rendering of the doctor's face. What of the FF8 dancing scene? How can you say it doesn't really matter? If they were claiming those scene could run on the PS2 at a stable framerate i'd have to see it to believe it.Do you have any figures to prove that these demos have been "VASTLY surpassed" by games today? I really don't care to hear opinions on visual quality as they are meaningless at a technical level.
Is this your opinion or is this fact?
No London it doesn't nor was it to the heart of what implied. I suggested that we would see interesting tech demos from nintendo and have little to show for it as nintendo is more interested in pumping out "quality" rehashes then it is saying its failing market value.
Whether these tech demos have been surpased is truly irrelevant as it has nothing to do with what i have said. My argument refers to the precission of games coming to the market that utilizing the advanced graphical aspects of the games.
No, i would say Nintendo had better hardware than sony developers not that they have higher graphical expectations then all sony developers.
...based off its concept....? Must be as technically advanced then...
Technically? Considering the GC's flipper is more comparable to the Geforce 1 or 2 in power i'd say technically it probably wasn't. Nor have we seen a game from nintendo yet populated with characters and enviroments which look like that.
Are you sure the link in soul calibur compares on the technical side to the link in the tech demo?
In other words it was prerendered and nintendo claimed that it was some how representative of their hardware.
I would say yes it was there to demo the hardware.
Outcast 2 on the ps2 was much in the same boat. It never was released. I Wonder why. Which was exactly my point.
I have no idea. SOme have suggested the ps2 had "help" from other rendering units harldly making it a tech demo but of course we all know the ps2 could do it without help just as it did with the FF and FF8 renderings.
possibly the same could be said for the xbox as well with its GPU at 300 mhz and a 800MHZ or more AMD Duron.
All of the PS2 demos ran on various forms of the HW - with many of the interactive ones running on the early devkits ( 2/3rd final speed )
A lot of the vertex count on the Square face demo actually went into the lines on the eyebrows and hair.. Drawing 6M polys/second is definitely something that's been exceeded by game engines such as J&D-2 and Burnout-2
The duck in bath demo isn't as impressive as you might remember - and the water in Baldur's GateA is the same technique with many more polygons.
The square demo was definitely real time rendered, as the demonstrator switched characters and replayed the scene under manual control - however it wasnt identical to the rendered version in the ps1 game.
Funnily enough all of the demos obviously showed the field mode rendering that would cause complaints about image quality when the ps2 was finally launched ( with the exception of the Square fight demo - which became a scene in the bouncer... )
( Most of the demo code lies unused in archives as it doesnt match the OS/libraries on the final devkits, and would be too much hassle to rewrite.. )
A lot of the vertex count on the Square face demo actually went into the lines on the eyebrows and hair.. Drawing 6M polys/second is definitely something that's been exceeded by game engines such as J&D-2 and Burnout-2
The duck in bath demo isn't as impressive as you might remember - and the water in Baldur's Gate
A is the same technique with many more polygons.The square demo was definitely real time rendered, as the demonstrator switched characters and replayed the scene under manual control - however it wasnt identical to the rendered version in the ps1 game.
Funnily enough all of the demos obviously showed the field mode rendering that would cause complaints about image quality when the ps2 was finally launched ( with the exception of the Square fight demo - which became a scene in the bouncer... )
( Most of the demo code lies unused in archives as it doesnt match the OS/libraries on the final devkits, and would be too much hassle to rewrite.. )
Crazyace said:
Hardware for industrial design or with industry purposes perhaps?
Perhaps. Was the face demo simply a single layered texture put over a 100k poly wireframe though? What of the FF8 dancing scene?
The duck in bath demo isn't as impressive as you might remember - and the water in Baldur's Gate
I never got to see much of it though i heard it was more for the purpose of demonstrating the PS2's capacity for calculating physics. Its look certainly would suggest such.
I don't think is saw this one.
I barely remember something to this affect.
And what of the "photorealistic" GT cars with the texture affects?
Nah - just slower versions of the console chipset on early devkits..
As far as I can remember both of those were single textured poly pushing demos
2 demos of GT were shown - one 'real time' rendered preset demo,
basically throwing poly's at the graphics chip. The other was real time ( also shown at E3 ) with the hipoly car racing on a GT track using PS1 quality track textures..
The first demo was an indication of the GS capabilities - in the final game replays the 'shinyness' was turned down as PD found newer effects
So they were able to run all this on PS2 hardware. I am hearing conflicting stories.
The detail of the texture of the man's face is rather impressive. The ps2 was able to completely recreate the likeness of the original SGI (or other) hardware?
so this was infact run on PS2 hardware? Why is it that some of you seem to be disagreeing on which demos were or were not run on PS2?
I think many people didn't actually see many of the demos in person, just 2nd hand pictures or badly compressed video camera feeds.. It's also amazing how people assume things when they see prototype kits...
( Actually one of the demos I liked best was where Crash Bandicoot was chased over sand dunes by a huge crowd of around a 100 linux penguins - quite apt seeing how the dev env was hosted on linux machines... )
The face demo was just a texture mapped model - You can have a 1024x1024 sized texture for a PS2 demo easily, so exporting a high poly model with a single wrapped texture wouldn't be totally out of the question. ( Much like the Shenmue head demos ) - As for recreation, no one ever saw the original SGI rendered version, so comparisions weren't made - and SGI real time rendering isn't really that hot ( especially at the time ) unless you spend stupid amounts of cash ( Many anim studios would animate in wireframe, or box representations before rendering offline )
( Actually one of the demos I liked best was where Crash Bandicoot was chased over sand dunes by a huge crowd of around a 100 linux penguins - quite apt seeing how the dev env was hosted on linux machines... )
The face demo was just a texture mapped model - You can have a 1024x1024 sized texture for a PS2 demo easily, so exporting a high poly model with a single wrapped texture wouldn't be totally out of the question. ( Much like the Shenmue head demos ) - As for recreation, no one ever saw the original SGI rendered version, so comparisions weren't made - and SGI real time rendering isn't really that hot ( especially at the time ) unless you spend stupid amounts of cash ( Many anim studios would animate in wireframe, or box representations before rendering offline )
Wow, is that anywhere around? I LOVED the FF:TSW Thriller spot!
Just as an aside, I love how people keep talking about the old SW2k Zelda video... because it ISN'T POSSIBLE to use that kind of LOD for a game this gen. It's very obvious that those two characters together are capable of pretty much maxing out the Flipper... way too much detail. That link looks a ton better even than SoulCalibur II's version of him. Plus the background in that video is kinda crappy.
Legion, i really don't understand the attitude, but i digress... All i'm saying is that the demos I have seen (Tekken, Duck, Fur, Skeletons, Cars) have all been surpassed by PS2 with (in order) any fighting game released (be it Tekken, VF4, SC), even Tekken Tag which was a launch game. Water effects in ICO, Baldurs gate and MANY other games for the Duck demo, any heavy-particle engine (say, ZOE2) for the Fur/particels demo, EVERY GAME for the skeleton demo (which looked like crap) and any major racing game for the Cars Demo.
Legion, the car/racing demo needs to be seen in motion. in pictures it looks pretty cool, with shiny reflections and all, but i've seen it in motion and (just like the early GT2000 presentations) the reflections were fake, just higher res and prettier versions of the same technique used in Ps1 games like RRtype4... which of course have been vastly surpassed by GT3 and any major racing game released thereafter...
The head demo, as explained, was just a head with one (maybe more) texture on it. how is that impossible to do on PS2 hardware, seen the games released on it?
Have u seen the demos yourself or are commenting on what u read online?
fact: the robofight demo had something like 1 million polys per frame (as explained on some websites), and was prerendered. Also the lighting itself would bee too much for any current gen console, let alone the poly counts...
Legion, the car/racing demo needs to be seen in motion. in pictures it looks pretty cool, with shiny reflections and all, but i've seen it in motion and (just like the early GT2000 presentations) the reflections were fake, just higher res and prettier versions of the same technique used in Ps1 games like RRtype4... which of course have been vastly surpassed by GT3 and any major racing game released thereafter...
The head demo, as explained, was just a head with one (maybe more) texture on it. how is that impossible to do on PS2 hardware, seen the games released on it?
Have u seen the demos yourself or are commenting on what u read online?
fact: the robofight demo had something like 1 million polys per frame (as explained on some websites), and was prerendered. Also the lighting itself would bee too much for any current gen console, let alone the poly counts...
What I wonder here is what's so hard to believe about that particular demo?
Save for the animation quality there was nothing fancy going on there - and like the rest of the demos it had interlacing problems and used very low res textures
If someone swapped the graphics of characters for Douglas and Rachel and a complementary Silent Hill background there's no question which would look more impressive side by side (granted I won't comment which would look more ridiculous either
).Fafalada said:What I wonder here is what's so hard to believe about that particular demo?
Save for the animation quality there was nothing fancy going on there - and like the rest of the demos it had interlacing problems and used very low res textures
If someone swapped the graphics of characters for Douglas and Rachel and a complementary Silent Hill background there's no question which would look more impressive side by side (granted I won't comment which would look more ridiculous either
HAHAHAH u're a funny guy Faf... *imagines the SH3 cast dancing in a big ballroom*
*imagines the in-shorts-version of the detective (u know the bonus/cheat that shows him in his shorts
) dancing with Heather* I think what he was saying is that the demo's people are discussing here may have been targetted at the paper hardware before the downgrade.
The Gekko CPU is a PowerPC 750 modified for higher floating point performance. I've never heard of a G4 FX (unless that's some other name for PowerPC 750).
chapback said:
Did it matter in the last 2 genarations?
Just like it happened then, it is possible that PS3 will lack things over the competition, just like the competition will lack things among one another. It all depends on how big is the gap in release dates really... And if, in the end, they're all just about equal, then it will come down to the software, just like it does now, and just like it's always been...
Don't they make you not speak or write like a kindergartener for term papers and tests and such?
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