So tell me, WHY is a HDD so important again?
- Thread starter Hardknock
- Start date
See, now I don't care at all for headsets. Read the GuildWars fora and the majority with an opinion on this matter say they don't want to have orders shouted at them by little 12 year olds. I certainly don't care to engage in vocal communications with total strangers quite possible effing and blinding, and I don't think most people do either. Though of course it is great for play with known friends.pc999 said:
I think there's a section of the gaming populace that'll happily mix inot mainstream online gaming whole hog, and perhaps that where XB1's+Live!'s appeal really was being the ideal platform. If XB identity is centred on online gaming, which seems to be the case, cramping it with a split user base isa bad move. But I don't care for cameras (wonder how much THAT baby's gonna cost!) and headsets for play with strangers.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Bottom line is all consoles should come with a HDD because it's 2005, they are cheap, they have so many positives, and they free you of the need to buy any sort of memory card.
Just because you're used to paying for memory cards, doesn't mean we should be. In this day and age a "next gen" console should have the ability to save it's own games internally.
Also, the whole idea of additional content for games has awesome potential if Live! can hit enough people, and Dev's can get enough of an audience.
Imagine being able to download another 3 or 4 level of your favourite game for just $10-15, 6 months after you've finished the game, go back and revisit it with brand new levels. Talk about a great value!
Too many upsdies, not one single downside, HDD should be a part of any console and I'll stand by my feeling that 95% of the people who say they don't need a HDD, never owned a console that had one.
Just because you're used to paying for memory cards, doesn't mean we should be. In this day and age a "next gen" console should have the ability to save it's own games internally.
Also, the whole idea of additional content for games has awesome potential if Live! can hit enough people, and Dev's can get enough of an audience.
Imagine being able to download another 3 or 4 level of your favourite game for just $10-15, 6 months after you've finished the game, go back and revisit it with brand new levels. Talk about a great value!
Too many upsdies, not one single downside, HDD should be a part of any console and I'll stand by my feeling that 95% of the people who say they don't need a HDD, never owned a console that had one.
Shifty Geezer said:
Tell me that after play online co-op, which, as long as we know, they are pushig hard the dev to put in games
.Anyway a lot of people care about that, I already heard many saing that because of that they only play online at Live.Anyway I admint some games (e.g. racing), dont need so much for voice.
After all it can give a real inovation to gameplay after you can do this http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=2&cId=3140119 imagine what this could do to RTS, squads game, the EyEdentify from Sony, that is waht is meant for next gen, not just more Gflops.
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pc999 said:
Oh..I would love to have vocal fighting match in racing games....have it so your voice can only be heard when your in the proximity of the other driver and fades in/out as you get closer or farther. The trash talking would be great....its that psychological warfare that can be added with that...though the trash talking and little whiny 12 year old voices can get old after a while...but theres nothing like hearing a 12 year old cry after hearing them trash talk you in Halo 2.
I'm not just thinking as me, but looking at the statistics. 10% of XB owners play Live! Halo 2 sold at least 6 million copies with a free 3 months IIRC Live! and the majority didn't continue this subscription. Online just isn't big. It doesn't appeal to people in the same way playing alone or with known friends apparently does.pc999 said:
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
The support for the hard drive on X360 will be based entirely on how many of the premium boxes ship out. Since many of the early adopters will go with the premium package the support for the hard drive will be good.
What a lot of people are missing is that the main reason for the two bundles is to highlight the extra features of the premium bundle to get consumers thinking about the hard drive. Xbox having a hard drive was something that the vast majority of console gamers never really understood. Now they will see the benefit of paying the extra money and never having to buy a memory card again.
MS WANTS consumers to go into the store and look at both systems and come to the conclusion that the premium bundle is the way to go. Then you get everyone thinking "why doesn't the PS3 have a hard drive?" and then when the PS3 comes out at $399 + $100 for the hard drive, the X360 will look like a good deal by comparison.
It's subtle, yet intelligent marketing IMO.
What a lot of people are missing is that the main reason for the two bundles is to highlight the extra features of the premium bundle to get consumers thinking about the hard drive. Xbox having a hard drive was something that the vast majority of console gamers never really understood. Now they will see the benefit of paying the extra money and never having to buy a memory card again.
MS WANTS consumers to go into the store and look at both systems and come to the conclusion that the premium bundle is the way to go. Then you get everyone thinking "why doesn't the PS3 have a hard drive?" and then when the PS3 comes out at $399 + $100 for the hard drive, the X360 will look like a good deal by comparison.
It's subtle, yet intelligent marketing IMO.
Readykilowatt
Regular
Johnny Awesome said:
What if the PS3 comes out at $299?
Johnny Awesome said:
I highly doubt that will happen....after what happened with Grand Theft Auto: SA, I've lost any hope that parents read what there buying. During the holiday rush to, I'm not to sure parents will be doing that...just grab and buy, grab and buy...there going to be alot of confused parents that bought their kids 360's after the Holidays.
That's a bit far-fetched... and doesn't really make any sense at all, sorry.Johnny Awesome said:
Shifty Geezer said:
Interesting here Halo 2 did not come with that.
For a lot from how play Live it is important, you can turn off those kids anyway.
And as I said if halo as co-op online I guess that it would be different, plus PDZ/CS/SC mp tatical modes (like) that can ruin that experince. And every UE3 game could have a good suport for a advanced voice feature, PS3 has already with the Eye Toy 2 camera which seems really fun, Rev probably much more, really for me it just lost to much
Johnny Awesome:
one said:
For most dev not even 85%, would be enough.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=545643&postcount=262
Shifty Geezer said:
Live had a couple major hurdles this gen:
1. It did not deploy with the console at launch.
2. It was not included with the console at launch.
3. Early game support was weak. First gen games and a lot of games in development when Live deployed did NOT use the features.
4. Broadband access has ballooned over the last couple years and at approaching 40M US (215M world wide) at the end of 2005 is finally hitting mass market penetration.
Chicken & Egg scenario.
If the hardware does not ship with it people don't have it.
And if the hardware was lacking the software wont support it.
So MS has changed that.
1. Xbox Live 360 is a central pillar to the 360 platform and will be deployed on Day 1.
2. Live Silver is included with EVERY console; 30 day trial of Gold free.
3. Every game MUST be Xbox Live aware. Further, since Live has a 2M player following on Xbox1 and the feature is being pushed a lot of games are going to use the features out of the box.
4. Broadband access worldwide in fall 2005, compared to fall 2000, is
With microtransactions, level updates, more emphasis on COOP, more games using the features, etc... and most importantly being part of the platfrom from DAY 1 and part of the software paradigm from conception it will do a lot better.
MS is projected to get 35% of the market. With a projection of 160M total console sales, that would give MS about 56M consoles this gen.
Based on their goal of 50% Live activity, that would bring that number to ~28M Live users.
Even if MS falls substantially short (lets say 35% Live users) that as many 360 Live users as total Xbox1 sales
(20M).Personally I do not see 50%. But 30-35% seems reasonable long term (higher at launch... maybe 70% in the first year... decreasing as the number of casuals join).
I agree that there needs to be more options online though. We love FPS/competitive games like Madden and racers and MMOs, but to pull in more casual gamers you need other stuff... like Sims! And COOP (which MS is really pushing).
So there is a LOT of work to be done in online game to pull casual console gamers in.
But the reverse is also true: Online gaming pulls in non-typical gamers. I HATE SP gaming for the most part (for a host of reasons). I like to interact with PEOPLE. Either in person or online. More personable, more challenging, more rewarding--and less anti-social. My friends are the same way (in my narrow/personal observation none of my real life friends play games alone--only in groups/online--and I am venturing an estimate of 90% of my online gaming friends never play non-online games). So there is a demographic to appeal to and grow--one that would not typically be too interested in an offline game.
Just one of those areas to expand gaming. But there is still the need of the "killer app" that pulls a LOT of casuals in. A game more like Animal Crossing or Spore and less like Halo and Madden.
Anyhow I think it will be a big deal this gen. The market is different, hardcore gamers want it, and it is expanding with features (like COOP) and gametypes that appeal to new audiances.
It wont match non-online gaming but it will be one way the market expands and appeals to new gamers and adds value/longevity to gaming. And if MS/Sony get 35% of gamers online this gen (~140M projected consoles between them) that is 50M people online. That number far outreaches other features tooted this gen (like HD support).
Edit: had 215M NA next to 40M US... 215M is projected 2005 worldwide penetration.
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Johnny Awesome said:
Err, no it wouldn't.
So, PS3 + HDD + built-in Wifi = $500? OK.
X360 + HDD + Wifi = $500
No Bluray (which will be in several-hundred dollar players next year - how much would MS charge for HD-DVD addon?). No full backwards compatibility. No gigabit switch. No digital video out. Etc. etc.
PS3 + HDD at $500 would be a bargain compared to the X360 pricing. Heck PS3 minus a HDD at that price would still look like very good value relative to X360 (very unfortunately). I don't think Sony will go that high with PS3 though.
which might or might not occur at PS3 launch. I think there won't be a price drop for xbox360 until later.
Hardknock said:You're not taking into account a price drop BTW.
It would be way to early for a price drop. If the PS3 does come out around next spring, that will mean the 360 will be out for about 6 months. There will still be people buying the system at its full price.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Anwyays, back on the topic of the 360 HDD
it sounds like MS has made it quite easy to implement gamecaching so we can expect to see it most of the time, which is good.
This is from M_Hael at xbox-scene, a neversoft Dev,
-----------------------------------
What people are missing is the HD's primary use and its NOT for games. It will be a LIVE Storage device. Plain and simple. Yes some games can be designed to use the caching if its required. Others will not bother for whatever reason.
...
if(HDDPresent)
{
// Cache files
}else{
// don't
}
ooh aren't I good eh ?
...
[in reference to the above] this wasn't a joke.
...
caching (HD or NOT) is VERY VERY Simple to do and requires NO Changes to the "GAME" at all.. its an under the hood small change. Trust me I've implemented it several times and will implement it where ever possible.--------------------------------------------
it sounds like MS has made it quite easy to implement gamecaching so we can expect to see it most of the time, which is good.
This is from M_Hael at xbox-scene, a neversoft Dev,
-----------------------------------
What people are missing is the HD's primary use and its NOT for games. It will be a LIVE Storage device. Plain and simple. Yes some games can be designed to use the caching if its required. Others will not bother for whatever reason.
...
if(HDDPresent)
{
// Cache files
}else{
// don't
}
ooh aren't I good eh ?
...
[in reference to the above] this wasn't a joke.
...
caching (HD or NOT) is VERY VERY Simple to do and requires NO Changes to the "GAME" at all.. its an under the hood small change. Trust me I've implemented it several times and will implement it where ever possible.--------------------------------------------
scooby_dooby
Legend
And bethesda has confirmed they are maing extensive use of the HDD:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Bethesda, maker of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for Xbox 360, has previously boasted considerable use of the hard drive for its massive RPG. Many gamers are wondering if they can still play Oblivion if they purchase the hard drive-free Core System. We contacted Bethesda directly to find out.
"We've known since day one that there would be versions of the 360 without a hard drive, so Oblivion will still work on every 360," assures Todd Howard, executive producer at Bethesda. "That being said, Oblivion takes full advantage of the hard drive and uses it extensively, so we'd certainly recommend that everyone gets one."
This indicates that the hard drive can be tapped for more than just MP3 and photo storage. It seems developers are not afraid to utilize the hard drive for optimizing load times and streamlining their games much like the original Xbox.
Game Informer has also heard rumblings that Microsoft mandated all Xbox 360 games be playable without hard drive assistance (MMOs are excused from this requirement). It's up to the developer to choose how much hard drive optimization to include in their games from that point. --------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
Bethesda, maker of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for Xbox 360, has previously boasted considerable use of the hard drive for its massive RPG. Many gamers are wondering if they can still play Oblivion if they purchase the hard drive-free Core System. We contacted Bethesda directly to find out.
"We've known since day one that there would be versions of the 360 without a hard drive, so Oblivion will still work on every 360," assures Todd Howard, executive producer at Bethesda. "That being said, Oblivion takes full advantage of the hard drive and uses it extensively, so we'd certainly recommend that everyone gets one."
This indicates that the hard drive can be tapped for more than just MP3 and photo storage. It seems developers are not afraid to utilize the hard drive for optimizing load times and streamlining their games much like the original Xbox.
Game Informer has also heard rumblings that Microsoft mandated all Xbox 360 games be playable without hard drive assistance (MMOs are excused from this requirement). It's up to the developer to choose how much hard drive optimization to include in their games from that point. --------------------------------------------------------------
I would be mightily surprised at those sorts of figures. Korea has massive online gaming and it's still not in the multimulti millions AFAIK, including all PC games + console games. A substantiated figure here is probably quite important, but some Googling shows financial figures and 'cultural differences' that suggest it's not 50% of the population playing online games even where it's a cultural phenominem.Acert93 said:Made smart observations of online play and included...
Even if MS falls substantially short (lets say 35% Live users) that as many 360 Live users as total Xbox1 sales
Personally I do not see 50%. But 30-35% seems reasonable long term (higher at launch... maybe 70% in the first year... decreasing as the number of casuals join).
For FPS or racers online makes sense. For anything with story, more like a novel than a sport in it's appeal, adding people is a recipe for disaster. How many MMOs have people role-playing their character, instead of talking text speak totally out of place to a fantasy realm? People aren't actors. They take their culture into the game rather than adjust to the game's culture. There's also the problem of entry level gamers getting thrashed by people who play constantly.
Okay, some issues can be addressed. Live! is to feature performance related pair ups so maybe challenges won't be lop sided. I still think that to the majority the idea of gaming on their own (relaxing hobby after hectic day at the office) or sat with family/friends is the main reason they buy consoles. I reckon 5 million Live! subscribers tops in 3 years. Unless it takes off in Korea which is kinda cheating
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