So tell me, WHY is a HDD so important again?

[Hardknock]

Besides MMORPGs, there's really no need for it. Most demos will come on demo discs, it's not needed for online play, you can stream your music from an MP3 player or your PC with no need for a HDD, you can stream the game off the disc(which should be much easier since it's 12x) to decrease load times.... A 20 gig harddrive is really a waste when you think about it.... what could you possibly fill that up with when you have a PC?

Not getting it saves you $100 you can use to buy whatever else you want with the system

 

[Hardknock]

When you think about it, the $299 base model is a very viable option. And before anybody brings up $40 memory cards. You don't need one to save. You can use any USB storage device, like an MP3 player or PSP

These SKUs were well thought out, and now that I think about it, I appreciate having the option.

 

[Carl B]

Well, I don't have any idea why it's so important. But I do know that all the 360 fans who were laughing at the PS3's lack of standard HD will be able to provide us with the answer.

 

[Carl B]

When you think about it, the $299 base model is a very viable option. And before anybody brings up $40 memory cards. You don't need one to save. You can use any USB storage device, like an MP3 player or PSP

These SKUs were well thought out, and now that I think about it, I appreciate having the option.

Has it been confirmed you can use USB storage to save? If so I agree that puts a much better dynamic into play. But if not, well then the base system still sucks.

 

[Titanio]

Well, you were telling us why not so long ago..

Keep in mind guys, that without a standard HDD, it's more likely that you won't be able to play certain games on your system. Oblivion is already rumored to be cancelled for the PS3 because the HDD isn't standard. Square has expressed disapointment about there being no HDD standard for PS3. Also, an HDD would be great for downloadable game demos and trailers, seamless worlds, less loading and user created content. In the latest Game Informer, they state MS is working on a Music Service where you can download them to your harddrive and transfer to your MP3 devices if you like. Also GI states Halo 3 will include both a map editor and movie-making function. Being able to create and share those things online would require a HDD.

Sorry..but it's true to say that a lot of people were very insistent about the importance of a standard HDD before (not to say you were the most ardent, Hardknock). I certainly never was, even if standard HDD is better no standard HDD.

 

[Nicked]

Way to spin. Obviously its not important now its not standard in your console of choice.

Oh and you thought it was important

Edit; Fun quote time!

Why must some people damage control everything Sony? If the developer came and flat out said it to your face, you still wouldn't believe it. Not having an HDD will mean you won't be able to play some types of games. Deal with it.

Boourns, die Sony die!

I love how you can tell what a developer should and shouldn't require for their game, when you have absolutely no experience in the subject. Not trying to be funny, but I hate it when people rationalize this huge mistake(IMO) that Sony is making. I want a HDD standard with my PS3 so I won't have to deal with things like this. Square has even expressed surprise and disappointment about the HDD not being standard. Trying to place the blame on the Devs won't change the fact that you won't be getting certain games due to technical limitation, end of story.

Yep, huge mistake on Sonys part.

I'm just messing around.

 

[pso]

Well, you were telling us why not so long ago..



Sorry..but it's true to say that a lot of people were very insistent about the importance of a standard HDD before (not to say you were the most ardent, Hardknock). I certainly never was, even if standard HDD is better no standard HDD.

Yeah, it's just damage control from him. Hardknock, me, scooby_dooby, and a few others here at B3D expected to have a HDD as standard at $300.

 

[Hardknock]

Well, you were telling us why not so long ago..



Sorry..but it's true to say that a lot of people were very insistent about the importance of a standard HDD before (not to say you were the most ardent, Hardknock). I certainly never was, even if standard HDD is better no standard HDD.

Yes, but this was before I realized that you can use USB devices for storage, demos will more than likely come on Demo discs in magazines(you'll probably have to pay to download them anyway) and all the other media functions do not require a HDD... Me personally, I'll be getting the $399 version. But the $299 version is still a viable option, and not having a HDD is not really anything to have a fit about IMO.

 

[Carl B]

Yeah whatever Hardknock, you didn't realize that other stuff until today?

But seriously I don't care and am not trying to give anyone a hard time. Aslo seriously though - can you tell me where you heard that USB devices could be used for saves? Because that really would be some good news in among all the bad.

 

[Nicked]

Can't you just say "wow this sucks" like everyone else instead of trying to justify it?
Its obvious damage control mate. USB drives can't be used for caching, its unconfirmed if they can be used for general storage either.

 

[pc999]

There are a few ways to use HDD very diferent than just streaming.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=545231&postcount=148

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=545231&postcount=148

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=545274&postcount=170

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=545344&postcount=184

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=545366&postcount=191

Things always count as long as they have real effect in gameplay, and enjoyment.

 

[Hardknock]

Can't you just say "wow this sucks" like everyone else instead of trying to justify it?
Its obvious damage control mate. USB drives can't be used for caching, its unconfirmed if they can be used for general storage either.

You don't know the half of it man, I've been cursing MS all day. I was HUGELY dissapointed. But after thinking about it, I can see why they made some of the decisions they made. I'm just trying to put it into perspective for everybody else.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Well personally the main reasons I feel a HD is so important are these:

#1. First and foremost. Game Support. HDD allows for a wider variety of games, no standard HDD means less games. (may not be a big issue if 85% of systems sold are premium)

#2. developer support. not only do I like to see shorter load times, but embedded soundtracks make a huge deifference in the enjoyability of a game, and a bundled HDD really helps ensure we see that support in the majority of games(may also not be an issue, watching the kameo demo he plays ingame music from his ipod, seems like they are enabling ANY storage device to act as the music repository)

#3. homebrew software, i realize 95% of users don't give 2 hoots, but I love the xbox mod scene and all the cool stuff we can do, it would never have happened without the bundled HDD, i.e. the PS2 mod scene is pretty weak as far as software goes.

So all these may be non-issues of the sales of the premium version go as expected, ie. > 85%.

MS seems to be enabling in game soundtracks on a variety or storage mediums, as well they say they are making HDD caching tools built into the system, so they are planning on making it quite easy for Dev's to enable, which is good.

I expect the homebrew scene to be alive and well as I really think the majority of 360's sold will have the HDD.

And so game support is the final issue, and hopefully the installed HDD base becomes the vast majority which would negate that issue for the most part.

So when the dust has settled, the no HDD sku, not a big deal I guess. What really gets me is the lying and deception, it's why I always disliked sony and I don't like to see it now with MS.

 

[Titanio]

Yes, but this was before I realized that you can use USB devices for storage

Game storage is likely going to require a memory card or HDD. Especially since MS has placed themselves as the sole provider of those goods...that's deliberate, and I'm sure they won't ignore the potential goldmine in that if they make everyone either have a memory card or HDD.

Regardless, this is nothing new, and this is an option open to a certain other console, that happens to have actually more options in terms of removeable media. But you came down on it still for not having a standard HDD.

So all these may be non-issues of the sales of the premium version go as expected, ie. > 85%.

They're looking to hit the massmarket with the cheaper option. That's the one that will sell more in the longer run, beyond launch, I think. Despite its relatively horrible value - if you were to try and make up all the options seperately - the figures are smaller, and a lot of people beyond the hardcore will be looking for the cheapest way in.

 

[Hardknock]

#1. First and foremost. Game Support. HDD allows for a wider variety of games, no standard HDD means less games. (may not be a big issue if 85% of systems sold are premium)

Well it was just announced that Oblivion will not require an HDD:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=145879

So what other games are there? MMORPGs? That is an extremely small and niche genre, that is better suited for the PC anyway.

#2. developer support. not only do I like to see shorter load times, but embedded soundtracks make a huge deifference in the enjoyability of a game, and a bundled HDD really helps ensure we see that support in the majority of games(may also not be an issue, watching the kameo demo he plays ingame music from his ipod, seems like they are enabling ANY storage device to act as the music repository)

By your own account, a HDD is not needed for this feature. Also HDD caching I would imagine to be very easy to code into each game. Hell XNA might have a built in feature to enable it

#3. homebrew software, i realize 95% of users don't give 2 hoots, but I love the xbox mod scene and all the cool stuff we can do, it would never have happened without the bundled HDD, i.e. the PS2 mod scene is pretty weak as far as software goes.

Modscene I can understand. But selling a stripped down system definitely won't stop that scene by any means

 

[scooby_dooby]

any MMO-Genre, that includes MMORPG, MMOFPS(ala huxley), or MMO-GTA style games(ala APB).

IMO it's only a niche market because it's always been PC based. I expect MMO games of all types to explode when it reaches the casuals and starts becoming mainstream...

as far as being better handled on the PC, I've actually never played one, but wouldn't a headset be far superior to a keyboard anyways?

Also, don't forget the fastest growing genre right now are RPG's.

 

[Hardknock]

Regardless, this is nothing new, and this is an option open to a certain other console, that happens to have actually more options in terms of removeable media. But you came down on it still for not having a standard HDD.

Hey you can't keep going back to what I've previously stated as if it's proving something. If I've changed my mind about this issue, I've changed my mind. You should be happy that I agree with you now.

 

[Hardknock]

any MMO-Genre, that includes MMORPG, MMOFPS(ala huxley), or MMO-GTA style games(ala APB).

IMO it's only a niche market because it's always been PC based. I expect MMO games of all types to explode when it reaches the casuals and starts becoming mainstream...

Also, don't forget the fastest growing genre right now are RPG's.

And those games are still being made, so if you have the HDD version you have nothing to worry about.

And it remains to be seen if Huxley will require an HDD.... if coded properly.. it may not need one.... EQ on PS2 didn't require one.

 

[Titanio]

Hey you can't keep going back to what I've previously stated as if it's proving something. If I've changed my mind about this issue, I've changed my mind. You should be happy that I agree with you now.

All it proves is that your opinion isn't really your own, but simply a lock-stepped reflection of MS's position.

Sure, welcome to this side of the fence. It's just a pity it took MS's direction to get you here.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Oblivion seems to be confirming their game will run somewhat better with a HDD though, they even capatilized the word REQUIRES.

" For those of you that have been wondering, just a quick word. Oblivion does not REQUIRE a hard drive to work on Xbox 360. It will work on every Xbox 360. We would recommend you get one if you have the means, but it is in no way a requirement."

So first example of a game that is toggling HDD-caching