Shifty turns indie - "Adventures" family-friendly cooperative dungeon crawler
- Thread starter Shifty Geezer
- Start date
Using Unity's physics is very easy indeed, although switching my code and internal models was tiresomely time consuming. Physics was something I was avoiding as it's more computationally expensive and I like the idea of a game that can be played on almost any device, but TBH there's plenty enough horsepower in a mobile device for this little game that it isn't really an issue. It's also I think necessary for current users expectations. eg. If they click on a skeleton who's just crossing into the next tile, they clearly want to target that skeleton and not the tile they were standing on a moment ago. And if they are shot by an arrow that's clearly way behind their character even though crossing the same tile, they'll complain the arrow was nowhere near and shouldn't have hit. So you need a bounding box/sphere test for targeting and collisions to satisfy end users and my original design was plain dumb. 
Drop in, drop out coop doesn't half make things harder! Implement an inventory system just fine, and find it's tied you in knots when trying to manage a player joining. Ugh.
As for the user experience, creating a multiplayer game is dead easy at the moment, although I'll need some server specifics for anyone wanting to game on more public networks. But for the home user, you either create a game or join a game. Creating a game is the press of a button - all the server stuff is hidden. You then choose your party, 1 to 4 characters, and their consumable items, and launch. Joining a game is the same except you just choose one char. The joining player replaces that party member on the host, or adds to an existing party when the number of online players is greater than the number of adventurers in the host's starting party. Levels will need to adapt to these player changes dynamically.
Level design is theoretical at the moment, but I think it'll work well. Each new dungeon will be created with a specific set of challenges. You'll have five attempts to beat it, choosing the party and equipment that'll get you through. So there'll be an aspect of planning, with the first couple of forays being a learning experience as you discover the skills your party needs. Whether you complete or fail the dungeon in five attempts, a new one is created.
Interface is very touch-based, and will be a trickier transfer to consoles. I'll need feedback on reworking it once the game is out.
So much still to do! Ahhhh. Development takes forever. Where are the natural language development systems I was promised 20 years ago?! Why am I still poking about with frickin' array indexes and loop control variables? I'm supposed to be living in the future!
Ugh.As for the user experience, creating a multiplayer game is dead easy at the moment, although I'll need some server specifics for anyone wanting to game on more public networks. But for the home user, you either create a game or join a game. Creating a game is the press of a button - all the server stuff is hidden. You then choose your party, 1 to 4 characters, and their consumable items, and launch. Joining a game is the same except you just choose one char. The joining player replaces that party member on the host, or adds to an existing party when the number of online players is greater than the number of adventurers in the host's starting party. Levels will need to adapt to these player changes dynamically.
Level design is theoretical at the moment, but I think it'll work well. Each new dungeon will be created with a specific set of challenges. You'll have five attempts to beat it, choosing the party and equipment that'll get you through. So there'll be an aspect of planning, with the first couple of forays being a learning experience as you discover the skills your party needs. Whether you complete or fail the dungeon in five attempts, a new one is created.
Interface is very touch-based, and will be a trickier transfer to consoles. I'll need feedback on reworking it once the game is out.
So much still to do! Ahhhh. Development takes forever. Where are the natural language development systems I was promised 20 years ago?! Why am I still poking about with frickin' array indexes and loop control variables? I'm supposed to be living in the future!
i though with unity everything is click and done. So you still need programming skill? aww... bummer...
i guess ill be stuck with 2D construct2 for forseeable future
i guess ill be stuck with 2D construct2 for forseeable future
Significant coding skills. Unity provides a lot of the pieces that you don't have to write yourself and in such a way that they can be brought together without too much trouble, but making them do what you want them to and work together is proper software development. There are things like PlayMaker that look to work similar to Construct2 but I don't know how easy/effective/versatile they are. Invariably I find the things I want to do aren't supported in various 'packages' so I have to do it myself. eg. I want a specific glow effect. There are glow effects available but they don't work as a fixed size on a threshold as I want to use (apply to any values over 250). The end result is I need to write my own post FX shader in gobbledegook.
If you are wanting to create something simple that matches nicely with the features on offer, Unity isn't so hard. But 2D Construct2 looks to be very good going by the results. If it's just the end product you want, pick the easiest tool for the job! Only pick a harder tool if you want experience such as for resume and employability.
hmm i do think i need to make something with unity though. In my country more and more development studios focusing on unity for 3D and 2D.
i downloaded unity and ran it but the UI is daunting and i completely at lost. what is the 1st step i need to do. and i only want to make simple physics game by "room" to get the hang of it :/ (room A you punch buildings to collapse, it can become domino effect. Room B you balance stack on a seesaw, Room C combining the basics for more advanced physics play, and so on)
EDIT: http://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/projects/roll-a-ball/introduction
oh come on.. even simple game that labelled as "beginner" only have video tutorial...
btw sorry shifty, i have not contributing anything to your game
i downloaded unity and ran it but the UI is daunting and i completely at lost. what is the 1st step i need to do. and i only want to make simple physics game by "room" to get the hang of it :/ (room A you punch buildings to collapse, it can become domino effect. Room B you balance stack on a seesaw, Room C combining the basics for more advanced physics play, and so on)
EDIT: http://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/projects/roll-a-ball/introduction
oh come on.. even simple game that labelled as "beginner" only have video tutorial...
btw sorry shifty, i have not contributing anything to your game
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Yeah, learning Unity as a life skill makes sense. Lots of demand among small developers, and the principles will scale up. Also, all user interfaces are daunting these days! Software does so much, there's just more info than the brain can parse at first viewing. The video tutorials are fine, and there are plenty more across the internet besides the official ones, as long as you work through them patiently.
Only thing I am not sure of right now is if Unreal Engine 4 isn't the better choice at the moment. I'm hearing devs moving to UE4 from Unity getting large benefits, but that's just one or two and hearsay. I'm personally interested to get into this now a bit more purely for VR purposes, being able to make something in 3D and interface with it in VR is very appealing to me. Both already support that, but I'm just not sure which one will be better now.
What confuses me about both is that I have trouble just finding a real code project that I can start adding my own lines to ... I really should look into this more.
What confuses me about both is that I have trouble just finding a real code project that I can start adding my own lines to ... I really should look into this more.
I haven't looked at UE4 myself. I've heard pros and cons for both. For me, having already got a fair bit of Unity experience and knowing it could do what I wanted (not least because the asset store had plugins to solve some of my needs), I went with the devil I know to avoid yet another learning curve. For VR, the higher performing engine (if there's a significant difference) is probably important, but also the languages and interface. Unity is easy to use which is why I started. It's also wider-spread. A recent update had changes to Samsung TV support for example.
I feel we ought to enter into a platform fanboy war. "Unreal Engine sucks!" "Unity's for pussies!"
I feel we ought to enter into a platform fanboy war. "Unreal Engine sucks!" "Unity's for pussies!"
lol. If we are going for simplicity platform wars we should also add GameMaker - fairly easy though not as feature strong as unity, as well as cocos 2D.
I was able to get off the floor with unity fairly easily, though it would help if you understand game coding already. GameMaker is easier and leverages their own GameMaker language. Their animation system and many of their systems are simplified compared to Unity and is a good place for beginner coders.
It's still a decent engine, but don't try anything extremely complex
Unity is very safe to learn and has broad applications into mobile, desktop, consoles, VR and Hololens, and even PowerVR Ray tracing thing lol
I was able to get off the floor with unity fairly easily, though it would help if you understand game coding already. GameMaker is easier and leverages their own GameMaker language. Their animation system and many of their systems are simplified compared to Unity and is a good place for beginner coders.
It's still a decent engine, but don't try anything extremely complex
Unity is very safe to learn and has broad applications into mobile, desktop, consoles, VR and Hololens, and even PowerVR Ray tracing thing lol
Yeah, Unity seems to get all the toys. If any new gizmo is coming out, Unity is likely to get support. In that regards it 'future proof'. Create a thing in Unity and then someone announces a 3D headset - your Unity thing will be supported. They announce brain control? Unity will get support. It's very 'safe'. With all the changes MS are making, I can be sure my creations will have a place on Windows devices.
man.. i wonder if Unity will have "Unity for dummies" that works as simple as construct2. no coding, just click click click.
agh gotta watch some unity tuts
agh gotta watch some unity tuts
hesido
Regular
Well, we had a click click type game maker, it was called LBP2
It was held back by the over-reliance for sackboys, it just took too much effort to do something outside of the signature LBP look.. I'm hopeful that Dreams is going to change this.
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and mario maker or wario ware
but with construct2 it have much more freedom.
btw just watched the 1st two video for "ball" unity tutorial. There's little things but important that probably can become habbit (making sure its 0,0,0, have correct face, light angles).
but with construct2 it have much more freedom.
btw just watched the 1st two video for "ball" unity tutorial. There's little things but important that probably can become habbit (making sure its 0,0,0, have correct face, light angles).
I will say the Unity webpage has been nicely updated, the tutorials are much better than when I was using them in 3.5/4.0. It is much more friendlier than before, but understanding of game development, or a certain amount of math/programming ability is still required. If you have absolutely no programming ability, I'd stick with something simpler. Looking forward to your game Shifty! How many hours do you estimate you have left?
@orangpelupa you prolly want LITTLE BIG PLANET or the new game DREAMS to try your ideas out.
I used unity in the past, my first game I made with it (programmed in c# which Ive never used before, took me ~5 mins to learn,great language btw) is http://zedzeek.com/webgames/prafectionedgeUL/index.html never watched a single video (it is pretty straight forward) or even ran the debugger (could never get the thing to work IIRC)
I used unity in the past, my first game I made with it (programmed in c# which Ive never used before, took me ~5 mins to learn,great language btw) is http://zedzeek.com/webgames/prafectionedgeUL/index.html never watched a single video (it is pretty straight forward) or even ran the debugger (could never get the thing to work IIRC)
I can say with some confidence it'll be finished by the end of August. I have the framework of the game - select char, inventory, launch game, drop-in drop-out coop, currently working on objective system - nearly complete (save bugs). So a few weeks (if nothing crops up to get in the way) to
'finish' the core game and then it's Beta and content and tuning and polish. But I've enough experience to know I can look at this list of 'to do' and see there's not that much on it yet it could still take me a long time to complete.
I haven't even got my artist working on it yet, so can't even provide more recent mockups or screenies!
On the plus side, the time spent is resulting in some pretty cool ideas. There should be some good diversity in the quests thanks to this new objective system, and my idea for craftables (possibly not at launch) is pretty original and has lots of scope as an end game.
Update - and the very obvious bad news as evidenced by the fact no-one's been invited to beta test yet is that I'm nowhere near release! Missed all my expected targets. It'll be ready when it's ready and not before.
The good news is I've got some decent art (incomplete) so it looks more like a game, and I've finally hit a landmark build where I have a game started, level created, other player join, and the level can be played with a bit of monster bashing and treasure chest opening all working. The core mechanics, bar bugs, are in place and progression towards a beta is far more tangible.
I need to look into Steam Early Access I think. Money coming in would be nice...
I think the solo game provides enough value in itself.
Oh, and game mechanic tweak - originally an adventurer would have a thought that you'd choose to say then and there or not. If you didn't say it within a time limit, it disappeared. If you did say it, it would just target the nearest adventurer. That's been upgraded to a resource mechanic now. Each adventurer adds an available comment to their supply and you can choose to use it when you want to, meaning you can save up compliments until comrades need cheering up. Nicer adventurers can stockpile more remarks. You can also select your target including non-adventurers, providing the option for things like compliment powered doors, or insulting boss enemies to weaken them.
A current feedback problem is how to show more visibly an adventurer's health? The focus is on their mood, but it's possible for an adventurer to be very happy yet near death and it's not obvious they need healing. The only feedback at the moment is a health bar around the character icon. I've noticed playing Diablo 3 that I spend more time looking at the icons and health bar than the centre action, so that seems pretty normal, but I don't like it. I'll try something with the player indicator circle under the character, and a friend suggested some sort of icons emitted from the adventurer which could work well. They'd be very obvious. Hats that accrue damage would also be awesome. Why's there no "hat damage" asset on the Unity Asset store?
The good news is I've got some decent art (incomplete) so it looks more like a game, and I've finally hit a landmark build where I have a game started, level created, other player join, and the level can be played with a bit of monster bashing and treasure chest opening all working. The core mechanics, bar bugs, are in place and progression towards a beta is far more tangible.
I need to look into Steam Early Access I think. Money coming in would be nice...
I think the solo game provides enough value in itself.Oh, and game mechanic tweak - originally an adventurer would have a thought that you'd choose to say then and there or not. If you didn't say it within a time limit, it disappeared. If you did say it, it would just target the nearest adventurer. That's been upgraded to a resource mechanic now. Each adventurer adds an available comment to their supply and you can choose to use it when you want to, meaning you can save up compliments until comrades need cheering up. Nicer adventurers can stockpile more remarks. You can also select your target including non-adventurers, providing the option for things like compliment powered doors, or insulting boss enemies to weaken them.
A current feedback problem is how to show more visibly an adventurer's health? The focus is on their mood, but it's possible for an adventurer to be very happy yet near death and it's not obvious they need healing. The only feedback at the moment is a health bar around the character icon. I've noticed playing Diablo 3 that I spend more time looking at the icons and health bar than the centre action, so that seems pretty normal, but I don't like it. I'll try something with the player indicator circle under the character, and a friend suggested some sort of icons emitted from the adventurer which could work well. They'd be very obvious. Hats that accrue damage would also be awesome. Why's there no "hat damage" asset on the Unity Asset store?
