Shifty turns indie - "Adventures" family-friendly cooperative dungeon crawler

[Shifty Geezer]

I'd personally would like to see the game work on one tablet screen - these things support five fingers at once, so could be doable.

How would you go about that? The present interface is to touch a square to either move there or attack/interact. Multiplayer on the one screen doesn't make a great deal of sense either as how do you decide who controls what? As it is, in one player mode you could say each player takes control on one character exclusively, but they'd have to make sure they don't touch at the same time! Could get messy.

I don't see two kids of this age setting up network play on mobiles, even today?

Network play is pretty straight-forward as long as your on the same network. Just host/join a game on the list. Hope to get Bluetooth working on Android too, but that's dependent on a library getting support.

I could be wrong though, but even if I am, I haven't seen anything in your game that would benefit players from being able to wander off from each other. This type of game you'd normally want to stay together, always?

It's mostly about having freedom to move. Take CON - sometimes you'd get trapped in a corner when people run in different directions. With a fairly tight camera, there's not a great deal of movement range, and even a wider view can have annoying situations where each players prevent each other moving where they want.

As for health, there are the usual things. Can't you for instance change the transparency or color-to-bw for just the character that is not doing well?

I can try it. Characters turning greyscale or ghostly sounds a bit odd to me.

For instance you could display the charter in full colour when it's fine, in red when it's in danger and desaturated (black & white) when it's near death. No HP bars needed, screen space saved.

I'll give it a go and see what the beta testers think. A health ring around player icons has some design merit and is a well understood language.

Of course for the various altered status you could simply use symbols/icons over the characters' heads so that every payer can see them.

Yeah. There's a 'JRPG effects' asset on the Unity store that has particle effects like green skulls floating up when poisoned, and I'd like to go with something like that for status effects.

 

[Cyan]

I don't think I can manage that. I'm using Unity and its animation abilities aren't that great. I have the morale mechanic visible but not health as well, which is far from ideal. I'm still looking at a health bar somewhere.

I love designing and ideas, and have millions of them. Too many! A problem here is that you don't know which ideas other people will value most, so it can get difficult to pin down a design or commit. I've other projects I can be doing instead like my presently shelved space shooter - how do you choose between them? If you have a passion than you make it because you want to, and it doesn't matter so much if it isn't popular, but otherwise the stress of trying to guess what Joe Public wants to play can take some of the fun out of design.

Development is, on the other hand, very boring and difficult for me. Don't enjoy it. Sometimes, when problem solving how to do procedural content say, or implementing swappable sprites in Unity, it's satisfying, but the relentless lists of things still to do that grow faster than you can work at them, and the hassles of buggy and poorly documented libraries and services, get very demoralising. You also have 'finished' solutions that end up being buggy and you realise you need a complete rewrite. I picked a tile design to keep the mechanics simple, yet getting tile based movement working took a couple of weeks of head scratching as I wanted players to be able to change direction partway. Still has a rare bug where characters can move onto the same tile. Gah!

Mechanics can work well as a starting point. Back when every man and his dog was creating Flappy Bird clones, I created a similar but not crap balloon puffing game*. The prototype physics of the balloon was done in two hours and were very satisfying. It was then a matter of months to refine it into a polished game (that hasn't been all that well received!). I think LBP started with a simple physics mechanic too, just a physical platformer. That's something Unity et al are good for - trying simple ideas out and seeing what feels good.Unity's support of controllers is very nice, and it's easy to prototype console games or mobile or combos.

* Website if you want to check it out : http://softwaregeezers.weebly.com/

Well, Ori has been made with Unity, and the animation isn't bad at all -save when it runs a 30 fps when everything else is running at 60 fps-.

Also Unity is making changes and evolving every day, but well, that's redundant I guess, you are into Unity and alas I am not.

The morale system is nice. Teaching kids how to behave using videogames can be a very powerful tool. Sometimes you learn more when you are having fun.

I'd also add simple things like a key in each level, which you have to grab to leave the door leading to the next stage. Ideally, your player should open the door with a big smile in his face, a la South Park, facing the camera while smiling under the door's frame.

I didn't know you were a game designer...

Do you think there is a possibility for your game to be published on consoles? If so, I'd get it day one. Take care of you and stay safe. Good luck with your project. You'll do great!

 

[Cjail]

@Shifty Geezer
If you need more feedback n the HUD and UI just ask.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well, Ori has been made with Unity, and the animation isn't bad at all -save when it runs a 30 fps when everything else is running at 60 fps-.

The majority of character animations used in Unity seem to be baked into 3D modelled objects, using the animation tools of the modelling software. I believe Ori is a 3D model, or is rendered 2D sprites. What I have is individual pieces (Head, body, arms) layered so I can swap the sprites with new equipment, animated within Unity's Mechanim animation system which is basically a truckload of keyframes in some convoluted, spidery trees.

Also Unity is making changes and evolving every day, but well, that's redundant I guess, you are into Unity and alas I am not.

Version 5 has just been released, but it's mostly the same. There are a couple of extra features in the animation system but it's still not geared towards what I'm doing. In fact the 2D aspect is pretty much unchanged from 4.5 - Unity's still first and foremost a 3D platform.

I'd also add simple things like a key in each level, which you have to grab to leave the door leading to the next stage. Ideally, your player should open the door with a big smile in his face, a la South Park, facing the camera while smiling under the door's frame.

That's quite a good idea. I suppose a few randomised objectives each level can add variety.

Do you think there is a possibility for your game to be published on consoles?

Definitely a chance. The limiting factors are how well the game's received and whether I can make a meaningful direct-control port. Direct left/right/up/down movement and an attack button might work okay. Developing on console is a whole other world of headache though! An XB1 port is probably more likely than PS4 at this stage simply because Sony's cost of entry is significant. MS only need you to sell your soul and not your kidney's as well.

 

[Cjail]

@Shifty Geezer
Oh one more thing: the more OPTIONS we players have the better.

 

[Arwin]

Game called Spirit Lords on the App Store seems like it could give some ideas for UI design, or did someone mention that already? Came across it today and had to think of this thread.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I don't think I can manage that. I'm using Unity and its animation abilities aren't that great. I have the morale mechanic visible but not health as well, which is far from ideal. I'm still looking at a health bar somewhere.

Use hats to denote health status. A very robust and good looking hat = full health. Degraded = less health. There's just the hat rim desperately hanging onto your character's head = almost dead.

I would have said clothing, but this is supposed to be family friendly.

Then you can represent health upgrades with upgraded hat visuals and/or styles. You could have hat unlocks as well. And hat themes. Cowboy hats? Top hats? Baseball hats (reversible for the kids growing up to be wannabe gangsters)? You name it!

If this was targetted at a female audience, you could do shoes instead.

Regards,
SB

 

[orangpelupa]

@Silent_Buddha thats an awesome idea! hope you dont mind if i steal it (and put thanks on credits) for my game

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Game called Spirit Lords on the App Store seems like it could give some ideas for UI design, or did someone mention that already? Came across it today and had to think of this thread.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

Use hats to denote health status...

Very cool idea, although sadly impractical. Unless there's a procedural way to damage the hats, you'd need several artworks for each health state in each direction for each character. TBH that's probably why the health bar persists in games. It's been possible for a long time to show damage on characters, but that's mostly avoided I think save maybe on single character titles.


While I'm here, a quick update. Drop in/drop out coop is implemented. The solo experience is pretty entertaining even in this early state. It's effectively a party-based tactical game. Selecting and moving even just two units can be quite involving when there are multiple enemies. Add a buddy and you can concentrate on just your character. Balancing for the experiences will entail monster numbers for sure, and maybe game speed. Would need to slow down for the solo player. Hmmm, that's actually a simple alternative to adjusting difficulty rather than upping enemy health. Have a game speed slider...

Currently working on procedural level generation which is a lot trickier than first considered, notably because you have to ensure there are no impossible levels (keys behind the doors they open!), and the thing can't look like a random number generator is in charge. Assets on the Unity store aren't much cop, with messy layouts and random corridors, similar to my first efforts. The hardest part is the fact there are sooo many ways to tackle the problem! With loads of conflicting designs in the head, it's been difficult to pick one and implement, but I believe I nailed the basics last night.

 

[Arwin]

Good! I think, a long time ago, I read something about how to tackle that issue, by making a database of impossible states and checking against them. Of course you'll want to eleminate those from being generated in the first place, but it helps for a lot of things (bulk testing level generation, changing level generation routines and retesting against your set, failsafe for cases that the level generation can't prevent from being generated, etc.).

By the way, I used to study AI and although my knowledge isn't very up-to-date with modern tech, if you want I'd love to help with one or two things if you can use it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

My current solution is to plan out the route in terms of zones and zonal progression. Each zone is a quadrilateral (rectangle or square) of tiles. If you think of D3, its square zones pieced together to make dungeons is akin to my zones although pieces will be computed, not prefabbed. I know to get from zone 3 to zone 4 will be a locked door, so I just need to place the key anywhere in zones 1-3 to ensure accessibility. With the level mapped out as such, I can place a boss at the last point, mini boss or whatever in a midway zone, etc. I'm quite pleased with this design as it's highly scalable and structurable - I can create the level as a random maze or a spiral or a zig-zag or long, linear trek or whatever pattern, which'll fit future alternative tilesets (long walk through the woods). In a mobile game it'll be important to cater for shorter and longer games, meaning smaller/larger levels.

As of last night, the zone route is working, and I now need to handle route branching.

 

[iroboto]

My current solution is to plan out the route in terms of zones and zonal progression. Each zone is a quadrilateral (rectangle or square) of tiles. If you think of D3, its square zones pieced together to make dungeons is akin to my zones although pieces will be computed, not prefabbed. I know to get from zone 3 to zone 4 will be a locked door, so I just need to place the key anywhere in zones 1-3 to ensure accessibility. With the level mapped out as such, I can place a boss at the last point, mini boss or whatever in a midway zone, etc. I'm quite pleased with this design as it's highly scalable and structurable - I can create the level as a random maze or a spiral or a zig-zag or long, linear trek or whatever pattern, which'll fit future alternative tilesets (long walk through the woods). In a mobile game it'll be important to cater for shorter and longer games, meaning smaller/larger levels.

As of last night, the zone route is working, and I now need to handle route branching.

Sounds great Shifty, I'll definitely be subbing to this thread.
I really need to get around to coding something soon I can't stop playing games though lol.
Edit: I'll revise lol too personal of a question. Keep pushing !

 

[Billy Idol]

Do you have facial animation? If so, this could also be used as a health indicator (from happy smiling to grim looking)...or even with the whole body.

Or use the cloth as an indicator of health: similar to Ghost n Goblins games

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sounds great Shifty, I'll definitely be subbing to this thread.
I really need to get around to coding something soon I can't stop playing games though lol.

Edit: I'll revise lol too personal of a question. Keep pushing !

I saw it but just didn't around to responding. I probably work ~30 hours a week on average on this, but with the extreme variability of 'not the day job' indie development.

Do you have facial animation?

Facial animation is used for character feedback. A little animation clip would be nice...

Or use the cloth as an indicator of health: similar to Ghost n Goblins games

Just need someone to make me a procedural sprite damaging script! Actually, that's possible, but it's too complicated. Mostly because mobile gamers have an obsession with tapping wildly. If they want to attack, they don't press 'attack' and attack, but keep hammering their target. These same gamers will use buttons sanely on a console, but have a different and truly dumbed-down attitude to mobile, it seems. Hence their fingers are very much in the way of details on screen. Given the small bodies of my characters, cloth damage wouldn't be visible enough. Hat damage would be visible as hats will be big.

Which makes me realise that icons need to be at the top of the screen instead of the bottom where they'd be obscured by hands!

 

[eastmen]

Use hats to denote health status. A very robust and good looking hat = full health. Degraded = less health. There's just the hat rim desperately hanging onto your character's head = almost dead.

I would have said clothing, but this is supposed to be family friendly.

Then you can represent health upgrades with upgraded hat visuals and/or styles. You could have hat unlocks as well. And hat themes. Cowboy hats? Top hats? Baseball hats (reversible for the kids growing up to be wannabe gangsters)? You name it!

If this was targetted at a female audience, you could do shoes instead.

Regards,
SB

Wow now I know why Abe was the best President , he had the biggest hat !



Anyway I'll buy the game but please put touch controls on the windows copies. This would be perfect on my surface and my nephews dell venue pro

 

[orangpelupa]

shifty, is there any easy nood friendly text tutorial?
the official tut from unity is long video and too advanced for me (lots of script and words i dont get)
http://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/modules/beginner/2d/2d-overview

thnk yout

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not that I know of. You just have to work through lots of vids. Note that your video is intended for existing Unity users to describe the 2D system that were introduced, so they're intermediate level really. You should start with the very basics for Unity which will be 3D tutorials as it's a 3D engine (2D is just 3D quads!). I suggest you work your way through the Roll-a-ball tute, then try messing with it with your own code and getting a good feel for that before taking on the next 3D tute. Try the 2D tutorial when you're overall comfortable with Unity.

 

[orangpelupa]

thanks shifty gonna look more easier guide later.

currently really bummed, cant fine any files on the game ive been working on and its also not there on photosop's 10 recent file because i was using it for my thesis. Bummer....

 

[iroboto]

Any updates shifty?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not particularly. Working through, ticking off features from the list. Running behind schedule but that's pretty typical of software without a clear set of specifications before the start. Feature creep is an issue, and I'm probably over-engineering my solution for long-term intentions. Which is great if it picks up because I'll be able to do LOADs with the gameplay, but it's slowing down release of version 1. A project manager would probably be handing me my butt on a platter! Everyday life also keeps getting in the way - the struggles of the freelance indie.

Have rewritten a couple of aspects of the game engine completely as I get my head around networked gaming. Originally the whole game was going to be tile based, determining what you're attacking and what gets hit by which tile you click etc., but for flexibility I've switched to Physics2D and colliders. I look at what I've got on screen now versus a month ago and it looks pretty much the same, which is kinda depressing. But then I look at my list of things to do and all the items marked off and see there's progress. It's just very backbone and engine-y, and not content based yet. So little point in updates. It'll only take shape when the engine's done and I can start providing screenshots and descriptions and all the PR gubbins.

I'm meeting a friend on the weekend to help get a version 1 feature set locked down. Once that's all implemented I can get the graphics in and build content and get a beta. At the moment I only have a small room with some spawning enemies and networked characters with the remark system, barely more than a proof of concept. The good news is that feedback from people who've seen and tried it has been pretty positive and that's with barely any game there.

Thanks for asking.