Shane Kim Interview; No Force Feedback for PS3?

Gotta give props to powderkeg for this one, it appears they've lost the FF along with the rumble:

Shane Kim, confirmed by Doug (Perry ?) at IGN:
So we feel really good about where we're at with the controller. It's important to look at not only what Sony added, but what did they take away? They took away the rumble and force feedback. [Ed note: Sony lost a legal battle for the right to the forced feedback system it used.]
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/709/709862p3.html

I wonder if GT5 will still support it somehow.

Also he reaffirms 10million sold worldwide by Nov 17.
 
The only legal battle they lost was with Immersion over the implementation in the Dual Shock 2, so that really had nothing to do with "force feedback." I think the guy's just using both terms so people all recognize what he's talking about...?

The genuine force feedback from a driving wheel should not be impacted at all, and since I rather imagine it had to be implemented differently from controller rumble ANYway... I don't see driving wheels being hurt by this.
 
cthellis42 said:
The only legal battle they lost was with Immersion over the implementation in the Dual Shock 2, so that really had nothing to do with "force feedback." I think the guy's just using both terms so people all recognize what he's talking about...?

The genuine force feedback from a driving wheel should not be impacted at all, and since I rather imagine it had to be implemented differently from controller rumble ANYway... I don't see driving wheels being hurt by this.

I think he's talking about FF as implemented in a steering wheel:

You look at what we have added in terms of accessories, with force feedback wireless steering wheel, for example. That's just going to make the driving experience on Xbox 360 and Windows so much better.
 
This was Sony's dumbest move in my opinion. I could live with the price. But why be a stubborn bastard and take away a feature that gamers demand like rumble/force feedback?

On another note, I expect MS to have sold apprx. 7.0 million consoles by that time (2 to 3 million short of their estimates). It just seems more realistic. Nothing happens during the summer months.
 
Hmmm... force feedback is often used as a laymans term for "rumble" or "vibration" so it is ambiguous. Immersion has a number of force feedback patents and rumble patents, so it could be that since Sony is not playing nice with Immersion that they have decided to not license their products to Sony. But Logitech also makes wheels, and Sony probably has a license for their PS2 wheel and could always make an adapter for that (if it is not already USB).

I dunno, this all sounds vague. My bet is he is only talking about rumble and not true FF in a wheel. Immersion gains nothing by not licensing FF for the wheel and I am pretty sure that Sony would have obtained a license for the FF in the wheel if necessary (because a specific FF implimentation for a wheel is definately not easily pawned off). On the other hand Sony could be using their own design in the first place...
 
I am not aware Sony made FF Wheel. FF Wheel are done by Logitech. Even if Sony can't because of the law suit. Logitech and other 3rd party shouldn't have the same problem, since they are free to license Immersion tech, if they wish. This goes for rumble as well. There is no reason 3rd party joypads for PS3, doesn't have rumble feature, unless all PS3 games doesn't support it.
 
V3 said:
I am not aware Sony made FF Wheel. FF Wheel are done by Logitech. Even if Sony can't because of the law suit. Logitech and other 3rd party shouldn't have the same problem, since they are free to license Immersion tech, if they wish. This goes for rumble as well. There is no reason 3rd party joypads for PS3, doesn't have rumble feature, unless all PS3 games doesn't support it.

Don't the drivers that are installed on the console require licensing from immersion? I thought this was the reason XBOX never supported FF.
 
But in the very next sentence he specifically references force feedback in a steering wheel.
Yeah, but notice who's actually saying it. It's not someone from Sony. And he's not saying anything about Sony never being able to offer FF steering wheels -- he only says that MS DOES offer such a product.

There is no reason 3rd party joypads for PS3, doesn't have rumble feature, unless all PS3 games doesn't support it.
The main difference is that with products like the Logitech wheel for GT4, it was a third party device handled through 3rd party APIs, AFAIK. Much like the guitar peripheral for Guitar Hero. Part of the reason MS didn't offer real FF wheels on Xbox is because they didn't allow any sort of 3rd-party protocols or APIs.

In the case of PS3, it's quite possible that 3rd-party controllers can still have rumble and FF. Not that I've seen the gamepad API, but I imagine that the features still exist (even if they're just stubbed out functionally) for BC purposes at least.
 
scooby_dooby said:
Don't the drivers that are installed on the console require licensing from immersion? I thought this was the reason XBOX never supported FF.

Any software licensing cost, will be paid by the 3rd party making the device if needed (and consumers will end up paying for it too). Sony only have to allow it. AFAIK MS doesn't allow it, I don't know their reason.
 
scooby_dooby said:
But in the very next sentence he specifically references force feedback in a steering wheel.

Do remember Kim is doing some PR work here. During E3 MS made comments about Madden being exclusive and kind of led some to believe the same of GTA4. Basically don't count on them doing Sony's leg work in PR ;)

You could be right, but considering how PR "leading" works, well, I guess we will know in the future.
 
ROG27 said:
On another note, I expect MS to have sold apprx. 7.0 million consoles by that time (2 to 3 million short of their estimates). It just seems more realistic. Nothing happens during the summer months.

Based on the recent Peter Moore interview, they are very confident of 10M by November 17th, as well as hitting 5M-5.5M by June 30th.

Launch - June 30th (7.5 months) = 5M-5.5M units
July 1st - November 17th (4.5 months) = 10M units

So MS is projecting 4.5M-5M units in a 4.5 month period, so ~1M units a month.

Summer is slow, but (at least in the US) sales have been constrained by production, not demand so there are people who still want the machine and have not been able to get one. MS also has some momentum that will be pushing them through this time period, and starting September-October Summer ends and the holiday / indoor period of the year kicks in and sales will pick up. Some motivators that could keep sales high:

- Excellent E3 showing that was software focused
- Titles are beginning to move down in price
- Strong back catalogue
- Strong Summer lineup (LotR: Lost Planet, BFME2, Prey, Saint's Row, Madden 2007, Test Drive, MotoGP
- Strong Holiday lineup (Gears of War, Forza 2, Viva Pinata, Mass Effect, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Crackdown, FEAR, Splinter Cell)
- Strong 2007 lineup (Bioshock, Halo 3, GTA4, Wolfenstein, Lost Odeyssey, Fable 2, Blue Dragon, BiA3, MoH:A)
- Live is becoming a significant selling point (demos, XBLA, trailers, DLC, voice chat, etc)
- Wii and the PS3 coming to market will be generating a lot of buzz, but when they go to the store before Nov 17th they will see the 360; the impatient may jump ship, especially considering...
- Potential consumers turned off by the PS3 price tag may decide in early November to get a 360
- MS can use Live & Store Kiosks to demo upcoming games and flood the market with movies and trailers come fall (a GTA4 video running in stores--even just saying "Coming Day 1 2007" could be effective)

And of course, 1 or 2 really good titles in the Fall could sell a million or two units alone. e.g. If Gears of War is as good as the press is saying and Viva Pinata becomes a hit with children through the TV series you could see a nice swing in sales--all before Thanksgiving Day weekend.

The only signifacant new hurdle MS is facing is the slow Summer period. Sony was/is already fighting the superior Sony Playstation brand name, they still don't have MGS or FF, etc But Sony also did not blow MS out of the water software wise at E3.

Since MS has stated the 10M number to investors and keep repeating it publically I think them hitting 9-10M by Nov 17th seems very likely. Moore indicates they expect to have well over 10M installed before December 31st and I think I agree with him. PS3 shortages are going to sell a lot of Xbox 360s IMO.
 
rounin said:

The very first question answers that!

For those gamers that might not be familiar with your background and your current duties, bring us up to speed.

Shane Kim: I've been with Microsoft for 14 years; the last nine years of which I've been at Microsoft Game Studios. Back in January I assumed the role of general manager of MGS and haven't looked back.

Kim, Allard, Moore, and Bach are the faces of the MS gaming/entertainment division.
 
scooby_dooby said:
Thx for clearing that up Faf, so Sony didn't give up FF at all. FUD.

Umm... I'm not sure about that.

I'm fairly sure that Logitech licensed the drivers from Immersion to begin with.

Logitech pretty much pays Immersion for everything they do.

And somehow, shockingly, they still manage to produce, sell, and make a profit on hardware!

It's remarkable.
 
Acert93 said:
Since MS has stated the 10M number to investors and keep repeating it publically I think them hitting 9-10M by Nov 17th seems very likely. Moore indicates they expect to have well over 10M installed before December 31st and I think I agree with him. PS3 shortages are going to sell a lot of Xbox 360s IMO.

You do mean shipped right?
 
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