GTAIV sku comes with a balaclava, pistol and street cred.
RUMOR: Xbox 360 20GB SKU to be replaced by 60GB SKU
- Thread starter AzBat
- Start date
GTAIV sku comes with a balaclava, pistol and street cred.
I dont think Blu Ray makes any sense at all. First of all I doubt MS is wholeheartedly embracing the technology, after all it's Sony's and ms is all about the downloads.
The main detractor though is you'd have all the costs with only (maybe) half the benefits, because you can never use that Blu Ray for games. It'd really be a pretty big waste, almost a shame.
Blu Ray drive costs are likely still very high at this point, and ms seems all about the hardware profits now. Do they really want to emulate Sony who is still losing money on PS3 hardware? I strongly doubt it. I think if Blu Ray ever makes sense to add in, it does so when the drives are cheap. In that time it becomes a "why not" feature, but not a compelling one. The problem is if the drives are cheap, then so are the stand alone players. So there's always kind of a narrow window for it to be very relevant imo. I say think back to the PS2 and DVD for your roadmap. Is DVD movie playback a big selling point of PS2 today? Not really, because DVD players are $29. it's more of a "why not" feature, nice to have if you need it.
Also I think it would cause major consumer confusion. So many average joes wouldn't understand if it was supposed to play Blu Ray games. Or which model they were supposed to buy (a ton of people would probably think blu ray was in essence required to play the latest games).
People saying there's no difference to Elite, well that's true now, and they seem to co-exist fine. Elite has the black color, and it would still have a much bigger hd (just like now) and it has a play and charge kit I think. They are likely to add wi-fi to it later, and you could always throw an extra controller or a game in it later to maintain it's l33tness if all sku's gain wi-fi.
So the blu ray rumor sounds like FUD to me.
The 60GB thing obviously seems possible, and likely a good move. To my mind the HD sizes are always going to be a place where the average consumer is likely to see the whole system as "better" because it has a larger hd. So in essence I'm saying Sony will likely want to rejigger to at least match that capacity on their lowest end model so as not to seem inferior. Althoug I thought they'd do that to match Elite and it hasn't happened so maybe not.
I think the 60 GB thing is a good move. 20 GB is 18.6 after formatting, and you end up with about 12GB of usable space. It's fine in a way, but it's also too small. I always thought they should drop all sku's but core and premium, re-jigger the premium to 40GB, and price it 299. This seems to be a little bit that direction.
The main detractor though is you'd have all the costs with only (maybe) half the benefits, because you can never use that Blu Ray for games. It'd really be a pretty big waste, almost a shame.
Blu Ray drive costs are likely still very high at this point, and ms seems all about the hardware profits now. Do they really want to emulate Sony who is still losing money on PS3 hardware? I strongly doubt it. I think if Blu Ray ever makes sense to add in, it does so when the drives are cheap. In that time it becomes a "why not" feature, but not a compelling one. The problem is if the drives are cheap, then so are the stand alone players. So there's always kind of a narrow window for it to be very relevant imo. I say think back to the PS2 and DVD for your roadmap. Is DVD movie playback a big selling point of PS2 today? Not really, because DVD players are $29. it's more of a "why not" feature, nice to have if you need it.
Also I think it would cause major consumer confusion. So many average joes wouldn't understand if it was supposed to play Blu Ray games. Or which model they were supposed to buy (a ton of people would probably think blu ray was in essence required to play the latest games).
People saying there's no difference to Elite, well that's true now, and they seem to co-exist fine. Elite has the black color, and it would still have a much bigger hd (just like now) and it has a play and charge kit I think. They are likely to add wi-fi to it later, and you could always throw an extra controller or a game in it later to maintain it's l33tness if all sku's gain wi-fi.
So the blu ray rumor sounds like FUD to me.
The 60GB thing obviously seems possible, and likely a good move. To my mind the HD sizes are always going to be a place where the average consumer is likely to see the whole system as "better" because it has a larger hd. So in essence I'm saying Sony will likely want to rejigger to at least match that capacity on their lowest end model so as not to seem inferior. Althoug I thought they'd do that to match Elite and it hasn't happened so maybe not.
I think the 60 GB thing is a good move. 20 GB is 18.6 after formatting, and you end up with about 12GB of usable space. It's fine in a way, but it's also too small. I always thought they should drop all sku's but core and premium, re-jigger the premium to 40GB, and price it 299. This seems to be a little bit that direction.
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RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
But nobody is saying otherwise.
Nobody is claiming that it isn't possible for MS to offer a BR add on.
The point is that a BR add on wouldn't be considered 'a new sku', it'd be simply another accessory. And as Rangers mentions above, MS is unlikely to do that unless it is profitable for them to do so. They have no motivation to create a BR add-on for the 360 and sell it at a loss. Also, when you consider how cheap the HD-DVD add-ons got (even before the format died) and the fact that the BR add-on wouldn't be priced nearly the same, 360 owners would probably balk at the difference.
And yes, the new sku could be a GTA IV package along the lines of the Halo3 sku.
Do we have sales figures on the Halo3 sku? Did they sell well? Were they more profitable for MS than their offerings?
Personally, I'm still disappointed the Simpsons sku was limited. I thought that console design rocked.
While somewhat offtopic, MS does have some incentive to build a BR addon,which is to forestall ps3 as BR player sales which could eat into multi-platform game sales. But still I think it would have to be at least a break even proposition for them to ship the product.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
...I wrote about 4 paragraphs of a reply until I realized you were talking about the impact on software sales.
So your position is that 360 owners might purchase a PS3 for the BR capability, and then since they own both consoles, they would be just as likely to purchase Madden for their PS3 as they would for their 360.
If they never buy a PS3, because they have a BR add-on for their 360, they're going to buy Madden for the 360.
I would agree that you do make a valid point, but I would say that situation is exactly the one where MS would be able to rely upon console familiarity (controller design, etc) and should be able to rely upon Xbox Live! and Achievements as the tipping point to convince people to purchase multi-platform games for their 360 rather than their PS3.
And to be honest, if Live! and their achievement system can't offer that kind of differentiation and incentive, then MS isn't getting the sort of ROI on Live! that they should.
(Although, in the Epic thread, it does mention that Achievements provide more than a selling point, they act as a data mining tool for developers and MS which certainly has an additional value.)
Why do you think they would do this?
I can't really see any reason myself, you can already remote debug your apps on normal 360s, so there wouldn't really be any advantage I can see.
That was the point though. XNA is intended for normal 360s. So you can create a packaged deal including a normal 360. Then you could add a large hard drive(pre-installed with all the XNA launchers and Games Studio Connect), maybe with a limited edition case or controller, a free XNA Creator's Club 12-month subscription, XNA Game Studio Express and Visual Studio 2005 Express. Kinda like an Xbox version of the Net Yaroze. Like I said, wouldn't have to be sold via retail, just offer them on the XNA site. A limited edition version could attract the homebrew and hardcore gamers out there. Call it the Community Games Edition and limit it to a 10,000 unit run and release it in time for the Community Games launch this holiday.
Tommy McClain
In the beginning they did. Since then they've utterly denied any possibility. They've said they were backing HD DVD. When HD DVD was shaky they gve it their support. When HD DVD crumbled they said they had no interest in BluRay and downloads are the future. Not since the HD DVD addon was released and they mentioned 'we could do BRD if the market wants it' have they ever given an inch towards the BluRay camp.
It's this that in my cynical mind points to BRD (as an addon at least) being a certainty. They stated their original position, and then turned on the marketing stonewall in the backing of the alternative format. The moment the marketing strategy made no sense, they'll switch off the stonewall and look into how to make money, both in offering a profitable hardware addon for their install base, and in considering a value-added SKU including BRD playback for which they can charge a premium and larger profit margins over the mainstream box.
They can hardly stop them, can they? If MS buy drives from a supplier and create their own addon, Sony aren't in a position to refuse them. Or do they have a controlling vote over who can make BRD equipment and not? I'd be extraordinarily surprised if so! If MS are going to be competing with Sony, may as well make as much money from them as you can. It doesn't seem different to Sony using WMA as their media of choice for their portable music players and the upcoming music service.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
How is Sony selling/licensing BR to MS for the 360 any different than Sony forcing BR into the PS3?
Sony put BR into the PS3 at the expense of PS3 sales, because getting BR established was a higher priority for them because they believe BR will generate more revenue for them long term than they would sacrifice in the short term.
I don't see how it's any different with MS and the 360.
First, they won't be doing MS any favors, so it will be profitable for them initially. Second, if allowing MS to sell BR add-ons increases the adoption of BR, then that's probably a more significant revenue stream for Sony than the possibility of lost PS3 sales.
As I said earlier, just as MS should be able to rely upon achievements and Live! to sell their console, Sony should be able to rely upon the inherent benefits of PS3 to sell their console.
Unless you think that Sony believes the only true difference between the 360 and PS3 is BR.
Sony put BR into the PS3 at the expense of PS3 sales, because getting BR established was a higher priority for them because they believe BR will generate more revenue for them long term than they would sacrifice in the short term.
I don't see how it's any different with MS and the 360.
First, they won't be doing MS any favors, so it will be profitable for them initially. Second, if allowing MS to sell BR add-ons increases the adoption of BR, then that's probably a more significant revenue stream for Sony than the possibility of lost PS3 sales.
As I said earlier, just as MS should be able to rely upon achievements and Live! to sell their console, Sony should be able to rely upon the inherent benefits of PS3 to sell their console.
Unless you think that Sony believes the only true difference between the 360 and PS3 is BR.
For MS it would only be an add on for playing movies, and the add on could be sold for whatever it costs (or more) without negatively impacting console sales.
I dont know what your really on about, but an addon for the X360 or another SKU wouldn't be forcing anything, its not like you would need bluray drives to play games.
First, Sony doesn't have to produce the Bluray drives that MS would use in their consoles, there are 50 companies making bluray drives, most likely MS would contract somebody else than Sony.
Sony doesn't own bluray, nor is sony the lone contractor, its very unlikely that MS would choose a company in direct competition with themselves, rather than any other random BR making firm. Its not like Sony's BRD tech is superior in anyway to what the others make.
Sony's revenue streams from bluray licences (both tech and software) are such a small % of the total that the amounts that would result from an MS BR-addons would be tiny and insignificant.
Very true. Back in the day, getting MS to help support BRD against HD DVD made sense. Now BRD has won out, there's no real benefit to Sony from XB360 supporting BRD. What's the likelihood that talks with MS regards BRD are as much getting them to create authoring tools? I don't see the advantage for either party in MS just releasing an add-on in response to Sony negotiations, so I don't know where BRD would fit into XB360.
Unfortunately any MS bluRay addon device will still be a niche device for a long time. The unit will be every bit of $250 if not higher. BluRay may have beaten HD-dvd but high cost will keep the drives from consumers for a long time .....because the BluRay consortium is keeping cheap chinese manufacturers as far as they can from production. I honestly think all this talk is for PC based technologies and OS licensing. I think the BR technology is artificially inflated by a certain laser maker to keep the ps3 the more attractive BR path. Its odd a stand alone player only is $399 and ps3 with a top of line GPU, cell cpu, hard drive, wireless hardware, is $399.
"Blu-ray player prices will drop to $299 by the holidays, and possibly as low as $200 by the end of 2009" - Sony's Stan Glasgow
Thats a little less than 2 years (18 months) from now to even reach $199 BluRay players. Massive conumer adoption of DVD didn't take off until players went to the $50-$99 range. Which should happen right around 2010-2011. I hope Im wrong but that would mean we're almost 3 years away from BluRay becoming very mainstream. This gives digital distro oodles of time. ok now we can go back on topic. sorry
"Blu-ray player prices will drop to $299 by the holidays, and possibly as low as $200 by the end of 2009" - Sony's Stan Glasgow
Thats a little less than 2 years (18 months) from now to even reach $199 BluRay players. Massive conumer adoption of DVD didn't take off until players went to the $50-$99 range. Which should happen right around 2010-2011. I hope Im wrong but that would mean we're almost 3 years away from BluRay becoming very mainstream. This gives digital distro oodles of time. ok now we can go back on topic. sorry
Well thats the cost for a set top unit, not what amounts to a BD-rom drive; which are already available etail for under $150. With a bulk discount there's no reason MS couldn't slap on a case add a power cable and sell them for $179 or less if they were so inclined.
Standalone hardware needs to be profitable for the manufacturers and retail chains. Console manufacturers can sell at a loss and retail outlets are more willing to sell the hardware at less markup as they recuperate on extras and game sales.
There's nothing going on here with Sony fixing competitors hardware prices so they can sell more PS3s.
If that's the case, why not contract Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, Hitachi, Sharp, LG or Samsung to make the drives for them? The news coming from Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said that they are in first-hand talks with Sony with no other names being mention. So it's either a) MS doesn't know any better, or b) Sony has something at stakes with the BR technology that others don't. Obviously if they work with Sony to make a BR compatibility drive for the 360, Sony is not going to bulid it for them for free.
I believe if you just read the direct quotes from Ballmer and Microsoft you'll see that they're not talking specificially about supporting Blu-ray on the Xbox 360. They're just talking about general support for Blu-ray, which could mean anything. I think all of the hub-bub over this is just a mis-understanding.
Tommy McClain
Tommy McClain