RSX still in development, no silicon produced yet.

[jvd]

So where those demos running on dual g70s? I don't see the RSX equaling that performance.

its my understanding that the dev kits have sli 6800ultras and that the performance of the rsx is around 2.5 times the 6800ultra . Which would put it around the g70 performance

 

[_phil_]

Do you guys think the way CELL is made that its going to take a little bit longer for PCs to past consoles than in the past?

If kojima ,naughty dog and Polyphony make games for it ,then ,a big YES.

 

[Xmas]

its my understanding that the dev kits have sli 6800ultras and that the performance of the rsx is around 2.5 times the 6800ultra . Which would put it around the g70 performance

In shader-heavy situations RSX will be faster than G70 by a fair margin.

 

[jvd]

its my understanding that the dev kits have sli 6800ultras and that the performance of the rsx is around 2.5 times the 6800ultra . Which would put it around the g70 performance

In shader-heavy situations RSX will be faster than G70 by a fair margin.

can you post links to where you've read this ?

 

[ralexand]

So where those demos running on dual g70s? I don't see the RSX equaling that performance.

its my understanding that the dev kits have sli 6800ultras and that the performance of the rsx is around 2.5 times the 6800ultra . Which would put it around the g70 performance

OK, that makes sense.

 

[Xmas]

In shader-heavy situations RSX will be faster than G70 by a fair margin.

can you post links to where you've read this ?

Can you post links to where you've read G70 is 2.5 times as fast as NV40U?

You're certainly aware that RSX will be clocked higher (and might even be the bigger chip).

 

[jvd]

In shader-heavy situations RSX will be faster than G70 by a fair margin.

can you post links to where you've read this ?

Can you post links to where you've read G70 is 2.5 times as fast as NV40U?

You're certainly aware that RSX will be clocked higher (and might even be the bigger chip).

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22047 here or the massive post about it before that one . TO many pages to go through

Your turn


Also size and micron process isn't anything or did you forget the story about the nv30 and the r300

 

[Xmas]

Also size and micron process isn't anything or did you forget the story about the nv30 and the r300

Those were different architectures. With bigger chip, I meant more units on it.

 

[jvd]

Also size and micron process isn't anything or did you forget the story about the nv30 and the r300

Those were different architectures. With bigger chip, I meant more units on it.

but those transitors can be going to other things like 128 bit hdr and the flexio to talk to the cell chip with

 

[zidane1strife]

Also size and micron process isn't anything or did you forget the story about the nv30 and the r300

Those were different architectures. With bigger chip, I meant more units on it.

but those transitors can be going to other things like 128 bit hdr and the flexio to talk to the cell chip with

Does not the pc version require stuff that could very easily be removed from the RSX version do to the presence of the Cell?

I mean faster, bigger, with less baggage, it seems that it should be faster.(not to mention, . my guess would be that the final RSX could be even faster than the one announced, depending on how high a yield they get... )

 

[Brimstone]

I agree with JVD for the most part. The PC with warts and all will deliver when it comes to performance. The cost/performance ratio of course will favor consoles and of course the highly optomized games for the fixed console platforms will really shine.


Intel will eventually release a re-designed core. It will be intresting to see how much of a performance jump Intel can pull off for x86 computing.

 

[MechanizedDeath]

Thats great . Read the thread next time . Don't just post to throw mud at me when you aren't reading the whole conversation . I was pointing out that the power of the pcs will move past the ps3 most likely before the ps3 is even out. There is no shame in that . I find it rediculous that your even trying to defend it . Pcs scale high in price and your right its silly to compare . But that is what the thread asked and that is what was answered. I didn't bring up the x360 because it wasn't asked in the topic. Why you and democoder had to bring it up i dunno . Trying to put down the x360 mabye ?

The fact is by its very nature the pc will leap past them esp at this point in time when alot of big increases are coming and things that never existed in pcs are coming .

This wont simply be a a faster cpu and faster gpu.

IN the next year to a year and a half tihs will happen

dual core cpus

x86-64 compiled games will start to come about (not big but the extra registers should increase performance)

512 megs of ram graphic cards

second generation of sm 3.0 cards and third generation

Possibly wgf 2.0 cards


The ppu add in card

This is alot of stuff and yes it will be awhile for the games to catch up. But there are alot of games that will use that power for better iq (fsaa , aniso) and will use the new features in cards as icing on the cake for those that own them . Heck this is the first time that a major pc engine is going to be used on both of the big consoles which will most likely improve the uptake of new gpu features in the new video cards coming in the next year or two

Now you're the one misreading things. How did I sling mud at you again? You quote one line from my entire post and say I've misread and I'm slinging mud at you. I asked a legit question, if you want to stack the deck against the PS3. If you want to factor in all this stuff into even a PC for next year, you're talking about paying well in excess of $2000. Why stop there when you can just buy a supercomputer or renderfarm to take care of your graphics needs? Sure, the games may be one-offs and totally suck in gameplay, but you'd prove your point about the graphics advantage.

What I'm pointing out is that first of all, you can't find a quote from NVidia claiming that they'll have a faster part out when the PS3 releases. Ignoring that, even when they do release a faster GPU, the limitations of the PC architecture will still keep its peak performance behind that of the PS3. The PS3 is more than just a GPU, it's a CPU+GPU, and the interconnect bandwidth between those two chips will still be much higher than what you'll find on a PC, ignoring the overhead imposed by a cludgy OS. I don't think there'll be any single GPU that'll outpower a Cell+RSX tandem anytime next year, and even when we get dual-core CPUs, your bandwidth probably won't allow you to match that duo either. Basically, I'm challenging the notion that there'll be a PC capable of matching the PS3 in performance within its first year or so. I expect faster GPUs in that time. I expect PPUs. I expect CPUs that are capable (not as good at single-precision FP as Cell). But even putting those together shouldn't match the gaming power of a PS3 IMO. But I don't profess to be psychic either.

But then, if you are cramming all that into a box, you are spending a few grand, easily. So then where's the cutoff to keep the comparison fair? Why not buy a Cell blade server that crunches 16 TFLOPs and write a pure software renderer to fit your needs? At some point, PCs will easily surpass the PS3 and other consoles in power. Will that be next year? Bot bloody likely IMO. Faster GPU or not, I don't see how it's gonna happen. In 2007? Maybe. GPUs are accelerating quickly. Not sure what Intel's roadmap looks like. Not sure if those PPUs are really gonna be what they're cracked up to be. Gonna wait and see. PEACE.

 

[marconelly!]

its my understanding that the dev kits have sli 6800ultras and that the performance of the rsx is around 2.5 times the 6800ultra . Which would put it around the g70 performance

Going by the leaked specs of G70, vs. the announced specs of RSX, the later should have performance edge for sure.

What I'm pointing out is that first of all, you can't find a quote from NVidia claiming that they'll have a faster part out when the PS3 releases.

Yeah, that quote appeared seemingly out of nowhere on some website, but I've never actually seen it being said by anyone at Nvidia. Was it really said or was that someone mis-interpreting something else that's been said? The quote technically makes sense, as I expect the RSX equivalent for PC to show up around the time PS3 releases, but you will be able to SLI that equivalent, which will give it performance edge in GPU performance at least.

What happens if someone links PS3s to beowolf cluster though?
Will any game make use of that?

 

[jvd]

Does not the pc version require stuff that could very easily be removed from the RSX version do to the presence of the Cell?

the only stuff i can thnk of being removed is the pci-e bus. If they start to take away things then the rsx will be slower . If they split the vertex power between the cell and the rsx and take away from the rsx because of it then the g70 will be faster than the rsx .

Now you're the one misreading things. How did I sling mud at you again? You quote one line from my entire post and say I've misread and I'm slinging mud at you. I asked a legit question, if you want to stack the deck against the PS3. If you want to factor in all this stuff into even a PC for next year, you're talking about paying well in excess of $2000. Why stop there when you can just buy a supercomputer or renderfarm to take care of your graphics needs? Sure, the games may be one-offs and totally suck in gameplay, but you'd prove your point about the graphics advantage.

you did nothing of the sort because you never read the thread. Neither you nor democoder have other wise you wouldn't bring up points I've already addressed in previous points and ask me why are you talking about this . When i clearly have .

Yes I talked about the cost of the pc , yes i talked about the closed box nature of the ps3 and the edge it gives developers and why better looking games will come out faster .

But guess what these are facts of life . The advantage of the ps3 is that its a closed box. The advantage of hte pc is its more expensive and thus higher performing parts and more of them . The question wasn't will pcs take longer to catch up with consoles with price being equal. It was simply a question of if a pc will take a long time to catch up and i've pointed out that no it will not . WHile the ps3 will have the edge (And most likely the x360 with its 4x fsaa ) in some areas the pc will quickly eclipse it in other areas .

Yes the cell is more powefull at games than a athlon 64 dual core . But is it faster than a dual athlon 64 + ppu + sound card . Because remember these are all functions the cell has to do alone where as the pc has things now dedicated to this . Is the rsx faster than a g70 ? mabye but i don't think so . However is it faster than a sli g70 ? Is it faster than a g80 which will most likely be out or announced by the time the ps3 hits ? I doubt it and will it be faster than a sli set up of that card ? I doubt it and these are all things coming out before or close to the launch of the ps3 .

What I'm pointing out is that first of all, you can't find a quote from NVidia claiming that they'll have a faster part out when the PS3 releases.

First of all I haven't even looked . It was already after 1am my time and I had work and i'm still at work. The quote is on these boards already and was discussed in a ps3 thread .

Ignoring that, even when they do release a faster GPU, the limitations of the PC architecture will still keep its peak performance behind that of the PS3.

You can believe that . I don't think its true

The PS3 is more than just a GPU, it's a CPU+GPU, and the interconnect bandwidth between those two chips will still be much higher than what you'll find on a PC, ignoring the overhead imposed by a cludgy OS

And the pc is just a gpu and a cpu ? No its not . Its a cpu , ppu , sound card and graphics card .

Yes the rsx to cell has a fast pipe . But thats because the cell is doing more things than an athlon 64 is asked to do in the graphics part . It will need the bandwidth. Then on the other hand your going to have the rsx going through that same bus to get to textures . Where as the g70 will have 512 megs of graphics ram for itself not shared with anything esle . Then the sound card will have its own ram , then the ppu will have its own ram . All these things take burdens off the cpu so that the physics chip can do the physics and the sound card can do the sounds all the while the cell will be doing both of these things on its own with its own pool of 256 megs of ram .

Yes the os wont be as much as a burden but then again the over head of windows xp isn't very bad when you keep it optimized . Lets also not forget the hardrive which speeds up loading greatly over that of an optical drive and the fact that you have 1-2 gigs of ram to load up textures to in the system ram also .

So as I've said from the start of my posts (which you didn't bother to read because i didn't paint sony in a good enough light for you ) the pcs will do some things better off the bat while the ps3 will do others but the lead of the ps3 will quickly disapear because of the nature of pcs .

Basically, I'm challenging the notion that there'll be a PC capable of matching the PS3 in performance within its first year or so

As i've said we will have one before . You seem to forget other parts of the pc .

But then, if you are cramming all that into a box, you are spending a few grand, easily. So then where's the cutoff to keep the comparison fair?

As i've said thats the pcs advantage . The ps3s advantage is its sold for a loss and the games are wirtten for the hardware off the bat . Should we take away those advantages to make it fair ?

PCs will easily surpass the PS3 and other consoles in power. Will that be next year? Bot bloody likely IMO. Faster GPU or not, I don't see how it's gonna happen. In 2007? Maybe. GPUs are accelerating quickly. Not sure what Intel's roadmap looks like. Not sure if those PPUs are really gonna be what they're cracked up to be. Gonna wait and see. PEACE.

i've already listed hardware avalible in 2005 that will surpase the ps3 in many areas if not all of them .In 2006 we should have all those components but faster and in 2007 we will most likely have more than doubled the power of the pc since today

 

[marconelly!]

the only stuff i can thnk of being removed is the pci-e bus. If they start to take away things then the rsx will be slower .

They can easily remove the video processor, wich apparently takes some 20M transistors on it own.

As for PC vs. console discussion, I think it's a bit silly, considering the price difference involved. I'm pretty sure that if we go with even higher prices, we can find realtime hardware right now that performs faster or better than any next gen console will.