Revolution and HD: Do your part.

PC-Engine said:
Dr Evil said:
PC-Engine said:
Exactly and as I already said EDTV (852x480) with very good AA would make this whole HD thing moot.

Well that weird resolution which is supported even less than 720p displays is crap, normal ntsc Widescreen is 720x480 which is quite close to that and Pal widescreen is 720x576, which probably looks better than 852x480. I'd say that even if they support that res, it certainly doesn't make 720p moot, the difference is huge.

edit: with X360 I get 720p with 4xAA, there is no amount of AA for REV to make that up.

edit fixed some bugs.

It's not a weird resolution. It's EDTV resolution. ;)

In fact it has the same aspect ratio as 1280x720 and 1920x1080. ;)

edit: man this post caused me problems, well anyways It's not very supported resolution, thus I think it's weird.
 
PC-Engine said:
In fact it has the same aspect ratio as 1280x720 and 1920x1080. ;)


Actually, 853 is more accurate than 852 :p

16/9*480=853.33333333333333333333333333333333333333...
 
Alstrong said:
Just wanted to add that you also have to consider whether people are willing to replace their regular TVs that work just fine.

Well consumer considerations like this are already factored into the growth rate. In other words, using Acert's statistic, another 5 million people will buy an HDTV. These 5 million have already decided that they are willing to replace their regular TVs.

And as HDTV prices drop, the uptake should be even greater (unless of course the economy goes into the dumper).


Magnum PI said:
there is more than 350 million tv sets in the US.

Well it's not that HDTVs need to replace every one of those sets (there are only what, 300 million people living in the US now and far far fewer households). It's just that a single HDTV has to be purchased by a household.

Here's the other scenario. Currently don't have an HDTV. Buy an Xbox360/PS3. Buy an HDTV later on, INSTANT upgrade to graphics. This may not be true for the Revolution.

Magnum PI said:
i think that if the lack of HDTV can damage revolution sales only in the beginning of its lifespan. at its end, les jeux sont faits, if revolution is successfull it will continue to be successful, if it isn't...

You could very well be right. I frankly have no clue how it will negatively affect the Revolution. I just know that as a consumer, it sucks for me (I have an HDTV).

Magnum PI said:
and the rate of hdtv equipment won't be strong until some years.

Well depending on your definition of strong and some years. What is fact is that HDTVs are selling stronger and stronger each year. What is also fact is that the Revolution is going to have a multi-year lifespan (4-6 years?). I don't know for a fact how Nintendo is going to end up supporting HDTVs but I'm fairly certain that within the Revolution's lifespan there will be a very sizeable base of HDTV owners who also play Video games.

Magnum PI said:
judging by the number of live subscribers it seems that most of broadband equipped xbox owners weren't motivated enough by online to subscribe..

Then why is Nintendo getting into the market now?
 
mckmas8808 said:
Im sorry Dr Evil but I don't understand your last post.

Ooops I screwd up with my post, I meant that I don't think nobody is going to support that resolution (852x480) since it's not very popular.
 
I do think Teasy is correct thar 640x480 or 852x480 (EDTV) will look very good. TV's never prevented game console games from looking good before, I don't see it happening now.

While a movie looks better on HD TV compared to a standard TV, a movie looks infinately better than any game that will be released this generation. The level of detail in the geometry, color, lighting, shadowing, anti-aliasing, etc... is not comparable. So while a game on HD TV will be crisper and *some* detail will be more easily seen, the lack of HD TV wont hurt most games.

Even the Xbox and PS will have to cater to 480i/p due to the simple fact the MOST of their consumers will be playing at those resolutions.

Now certain genres (like RTS) and issues (like clean/readable text, web browsing) will be faced on a standard TV--wide screen or not--but for the actual gameplay in most games I do not think the standard TV will look like a dog. take a 1600x1200 Doom 3 shot and scale it to 640x480. In some ways it looks better (the blocky heads are gone!!!), but you also lose some texture detail. BUT you also do not see all the places where textures are BLOCKY (a problem in most games up close) and the game would appear more aliased.

So *if* Rev is scaling a larger image or applying freakish amounts of AA and has comparable HW the image quality will be great on a standard TV. We will miss out on HD TV (and that is a minus because it does look better), but it wont be the end of the world in most situations either.

My issue is the *trend* at Nintendo. Like I said in my first post, HD TVs are just gaining momentum in the US and clearly have issues in Europe. While MS made a good move by supporting HD TV on VGA monitors, the fact is a good percentage of users will never have an HD TV and thus wont get to enjoy this bullet point. HD TV is a perk that early adopters will get to enjoy now, and mainstream consumers may, or may not, get to enjoy 3 or 4 years down the road. There will be people still using standard TVs come the next-next gen in 2010-2012, but by then it should be critical mass.
 
So *if* Rev is scaling a larger image or applying freakish amounts of AA and has comparable HW the image quality will be great on a standard TV. We will miss out on HD TV (and that is a minus because it does look better), but it wont be the end of the world in most situations either.

Yeah, but that's a pretty big if. I mean, if they aren't even going to support HD resolutions, what are the odds they will have 'freakish amounts of AA and has comparable HW'.
 
It sounds like you are trying to justify a lack of HD with AA, when in reality, I think Nintendo just isn't focusing on graphics at all this time around.

I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm trying to discuss a possible reason for not supporting HDTV. And Nintendo's words are as focused on graphics are they were a year before GC's release, that is to say not at all.

From what they've said, it will probably be more powerful than gamecube, will fit into a small form factor, and consume a small amount of power.

Revolution will probably be more powerful then GC? You think so?..
 
Teasy said:
It sounds like you are trying to justify a lack of HD with AA, when in reality, I think Nintendo just isn't focusing on graphics at all this time around.

I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm trying to discuss a possible reason for not supporting HDTV. And Nintendo's words are as focused on graphics are they were a year before GC's release, that is to say not at all.

From what they've said, it will probably be more powerful than gamecube, will fit into a small form factor, and consume a small amount of power.

Revolution will probably be more powerful then GC?...

That's the impression I get from all thier PR and retracted statements. They keep saying that while thier competitors focus on powerful graphics that they [Nintendo] are focusing technology in other areas. 2-3 times more powerful than gamecube was stated and retracted. But we don't know if this was because revolution is more or less powerful.

It could be a shrunk down GCN in a slick case with a really neat controller and peripherals for all we know. Either way, the Revolution isn't looking to be that powerful.
 
this conversation seems to be going nowhere fast, but, i can't resist making myself heard ^_~ i agree with acert93, and think that Nintendo seems to be under the assumption that just because they beat Sega despite never leading the game technologically, that that approach is still working for them. I must say they have done brilliant things with controller innovation, enclosure design, and keeping piracy at bay, which have probably kept them in the game, but they are missing the installed userbase boat and fast.

they're aiming for a lower price point, and it might work for a bit. i know parents that will only buy their kids a system that will cost them say, $150 or less. if Rev could stay about $100 less than the competition, then I think they could get a lot of sales this way. There are IMO two flaws here, however. These same parents are only going to buy one system, and they are looking like the last system to market in this round -- and trailing by far. The other problem is while alienating their older, geekier fanbase, they are relying on kids to support them -- and kids are easily swayed by graphics. Kids are also easily swayed by marketing, so, maybe, maybe Pokemon will save them (again).

If these kids don't bail them out, I see the days of Nintendo as a hardware manufacturer coming to a close. As a fervent supporter of their games, I have mixed feelings about it. It's sort of a shame, since I agree with them, graphics are overrated (i know, blasphemy at B3D, but... i still play more SNES roms than anything else on my fancypants PC). I think it quite admirable that Nintendo has released quality hardware design after quality hardware design, with none of the flaky dvd rom drives, overheating boxes, fragile or poorly shaped controllers (OK N64's controller was pretty lame) -- and always cheap, the way a stupid game console should be. if they could only get the third party support, i'd love to keep buying their products, but... i'm worried they've misjudged the market.
 
Gurgi, you must be reading some PR I'm not seeing to get those crazy idea's. I'll leave you with a quote from Nintendo's George Harrison:

"Revolution will have no real problem standing up to PS3 and Xbox 360" said Harrison. Keenly pointing out that, while Sony and Microsoft have laid their cards on the table, Nintendo is yet to actually reveal its final specs, regardless of what has been said by the press.
 
Of course he's going to say that, but is it really true?

Nintendo has clearly lost their way. At this rate they are headed into extreme niche territory. The only thing that could save them as a mass consumer contender is if the Revolution ideas are actually really good instead of just more gimmicks.
 
To me Nintendo has been piggy backing off their familar characters for years now. And to see them piggy back off their old collection is great but I hope they can do better. I can easily and I mean easily see people buying a Rev. just for old NES and SNES games along with a Mario or Zelda here and there. Nintendo just doesn't say 3rd party to me.
 
Of course he's going to say that, but is it really true?

So if Nintendo say graphics aren't important it means their next system will have poor graphics. But if they say their next system will be powerful then suddenly you don't believe them?...
 
Yeah, that's about as simple as a roobix cube :) What's the point of downplaying something you don't have and then claiming you do have it anyway? Are Nintendo claiming they have HDTV support when they don't?.. no they aren't.
 
It'll be interesting to see how it all turns out. I'm pretty confident that the Revolution will be less powerful than the other two consoles and that it will have piss-poor third party support, but I'm willing to wait and see. :)
 
BAH...Nintendo is just using the Where not paying attention to graphics, the controller is where its at angle. I don't mind it at all, I've said it before...I'll be having the PS3 and Revolution. One a graphics monster the other Revolutionary gameplay (hopefully).

When I think about it now, I rather have 2D Zelda with a cool controller where you can do really cool stuff gameplay wise then a 3D Zelda game with all the graphical fixings and a regular old controller...
 
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