Remember this post by Tommy McClain about XBox2?

[bbot]

Megadrive,

I choose to be skeptical. Unless of course Sony comes out and says that that embodiment is the cpu for PS3. BTW I gathered enough courage to email the author of that design chain article about cell. He actually bothered to respond to a nobody like me! He says a Sony official told him cell is a microprocessor for broadband networks, not Playstation 3. Of course Vince will disagree, and tell everyone that Sony said the Emotion Engine is for the broadband age not Playstation when it was first unveiled.

 

[Vince]

bbot, I don't give a shit what you think bud. You can make up for own mind and that's fine by me. Heck, that's what this board is all about.

Just for the record, I've heard a guy that worked last summer down at STI-Austin on methods to reduce simulation time state that it's first major application will be for PlayStation3.

 

[bbot]

Vince,

Yeah, and I heard from some officials from Ubisoft that Splinter Cell would be exclusive permanently to Xbox. Well, it turns out that Splinter Cell was TIME EXCLUSIVE for 2002 only.

 

[wazoo]

Vince will disagree, and tell everyone that Sony said the Emotion Engine is for the broadband age not Playstation when it was first unveiled.

Which is totally true. the EE was first unveiled at 250MHZ for BB/network applications. 2 weeks later, at the Playstation Meeting, the truth was said.

 

[Gubbi]

Megadrive,

I choose to be skeptical. Unless of course Sony comes out and says that that embodiment is the cpu for PS3. BTW I gathered enough courage to email the author of that design chain article about cell. He actually bothered to respond to a nobody like me! He says a Sony official told him cell is a microprocessor for broadband networks, not Playstation 3. Of course Vince will disagree, and tell everyone that Sony said the Emotion Engine is for the broadband age not Playstation when it was first unveiled.

Go read here

An excerpt:

"We also announced a significant strategic collaboration with
Sony and Toshiba in March 2001, to build a new high volume,
low cost 64-bit, PowerPC architecture processor,
code-named Cell. Cell will be used in the Sony Playstation 3
and many other consumer and appliance markets, and
will thus be manufactured in very high volumes measured in
10s of millions over its life......

Just caught this on comp.arch

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[bbot]

Remember I told you already I was convinced that cell would be used in Playstation 3? Good. Now recalll what I said a little while back:

"I choose to be skeptical. Unless of course Sony comes out and says that that embodiment is the cpu for PS3."

By "that embodiment", I mean the 1tflop Broadband Engine.


Gubbi,

He also says "...in 0.10-micron geometry". Where does it say "65nm geometry"? (65nm = 0.065micron)

 

[Gubbi]

It doesn't. But EET had an article a little while back detailing how SONY are building a 0.65um fab specifically for CELL.

And SONY isn't into broadband.....

go figure.

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[Paul]

Where does it say "65nm geometry"? (65nm = 0.065micron)

For the last time, IBM ISN'T MASS PRODUCING CELL FOR SCEI.

SCEI is building the 65 nm fabs for Cell.

"I choose to be skeptical. Unless of course Sony comes out and says that that embodiment is the cpu for PS3."

GDC 2002, Okamoto says PS3 will have 1TFLOPS power.

 

[jvd]

but in another thread when i mentioned that sony plants wont be ready till fiscal end of 2004 which is in 2005 someone told me that toshiba would have the chips ready in 2004 for the ps3. So what does sony's plants have to do with ps3 ?


Most lodgical is that sony's plants will be making the ps3 version of the cell chips . That they wont be ready till end of fiscal year 2004 and the chips wont be rdy till sometime in 2005.

 

[Paul]

So what does sony's plants have to do with ps3 ?

Did you read my post a page back?

Sony's plants are for the long term, Toshiba isn't going to mass produce Cell for SCEI forever.

Sony's plants wont be ontime for a 2005 launch, although they will mass produce in 2005.

Toshiba is just mass producing Cell for SCEI for the immediate PS3 launch, with the Sony fabs taking over eventually. Toshiba won't make PS3 chips forever no doubt.

I'm pretty sure with the 200 billion yen investement Sony gave a part of that to Toshiba to help cover the costs of the new 65 nm lines.

Toshiba is now working with Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) on joint implementation of production facilities for the manufacture of SCEI’s products in Oita’s new clean room. The two companies will confirm details in due course, including the amount and timing of SCEI’s investment.

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2003_04/pr2101.htm

 

[bbot]

Thanks Gubbi for that link. Hans de vries answered. Interesting reply.

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=...81ea8b.0308211434.48ca41e3@posting.google.com

 

[bbot]

well?

 

[Paul]

Well? You wanted an answear to this? Normally I don't answear bullshit but here it goes.

Don't expect TFlops on the playstation itself anytime soon.
It seems that these TFlops are intended to be available in
distributed game servers

Again, this is both confirmed WRONG by IBM, Kutaragi, Okamoto, Cell patent.

Cell is an architecture, and is talked up by SCEI as a chip. Go look at their 200 billion yen investement, they clearly mention "microprocessor"

Now look what's being said about Cell?

Cell will be designed to deliver "teraflops" of processing power.

http://www.ibm.com/news/2001/03/12.phtml

My friend showed me his July 2003 issue of EGM and it has an entire page on ps3.

Here is what it says, this is from GDC 2002.

"Okamoto said the console would be capable of 1 trillion floating-point operations per second"

July EGM.

Now it's kutaragi's turn to take the bong hit.

One CELL has a capacity to have 1TFLOPS performance

Oh and last we have the Cell patent, or should I say PS3 patent. We see a chip design that has a capable max floating point power of around 1-1.5TFLOPS. This is Broadband Engine with the attached Rasterizer.

So let me see, Cell's TFLOPS performance is going to come when you have thousands of them hooked up over the net? I don't think so; not only does Hans de vries prove to not know what he is talking about. What he has said has been proven to be false by several people(and a patent) within the Cell development circle.

Lastly, SCEI and Toshiba are mass producing "Cell" on 65 nm. Why 65 nm if Cell is going to just be a chip where you will need hundreds to reach a 1TFLOPS performance? Why would SCEI take such a huge risk at 65 nm when 90 or dare I say even 130, both of which are proven processes would suit this lower chip fine?

But wait... A broadband engine type chip would be near imposible to put on 90 nm because of the heat would just melt the inside of your playstation. But waiiit... we have it being mass produced on 65 nm which would suit such a chip just fine, hell you even have Toshiba stating they will rush down to 45 nm ASAP.

But nahhh Toshiba and SCEI are simply just taking a huge risk and putting a few simple PPC cores on a chip at 65 nm because they want bragging rights because they will have a 65 nm chip before everyone else</sarcasm>

 

[bbot]

Boring.

Concentrate on the news.com article and what Okamoto allegedly said at GDC 2002 instead.

 

[bbot]

Vince,

Why the need to contact me by private message? What was contained in that message could have easily been posted publicly.

 

[Paul]

Concentrate on the news.com article and what Okamoto allegedly said at GDC 2002 instead.

Your clueless, everything people say that prove you wrong you let it go right over your head. Me just proving Vans wrong is no exception.

Your in denial over Cell, infact every Xbox fan-boy I see is in denial. Do you want to know why? Because as 2004 nears they are getting more and more afraid that Sony will ace Microsoft with it's PS3 that has been in development for years now.

This is why Xbox fans continue to pull the same arguments, trying to disprove what has already been proven by Sony themselves. Calling Sony liars and whatknot. It's really pretty sad.

 

[jvd]

Well? You wanted an answear to this? Normally I don't answear bullshit but here it goes.

Don't expect TFlops on the playstation itself anytime soon.
It seems that these TFlops are intended to be available in
distributed game servers

Again, this is both confirmed WRONG by IBM, Kutaragi, Okamoto, Cell patent.

Cell is an architecture, and is talked up by SCEI as a chip. Go look at their 200 billion yen investement, they clearly mention "microprocessor"

Now look what's being said about Cell?

Cell will be designed to deliver "teraflops" of processing power.

http://www.ibm.com/news/2001/03/12.phtml

My friend showed me his July 2003 issue of EGM and it has an entire page on ps3.

Here is what it says, this is from GDC 2002.

"Okamoto said the console would be capable of 1 trillion floating-point operations per second"

July EGM.

Now it's kutaragi's turn to take the bong hit.

One CELL has a capacity to have 1TFLOPS performance

Oh and last we have the Cell patent, or should I say PS3 patent. We see a chip design that has a capable max floating point power of around 1-1.5TFLOPS. This is Broadband Engine with the attached Rasterizer.

So let me see, Cell's TFLOPS performance is going to come when you have thousands of them hooked up over the net? I don't think so; not only does Hans de vries prove to not know what he is talking about. What he has said has been proven to be false by several people(and a patent) within the Cell development circle.

Lastly, SCEI and Toshiba are mass producing "Cell" on 65 nm. Why 65 nm if Cell is going to just be a chip where you will need hundreds to reach a 1TFLOPS performance? Why would SCEI take such a huge risk at 65 nm when 90 or dare I say even 130, both of which are proven processes would suit this lower chip fine?

But wait... A broadband engine type chip would be near imposible to put on 90 nm because of the heat would just melt the inside of your playstation. But waiiit... we have it being mass produced on 65 nm which would suit such a chip just fine, hell you even have Toshiba stating they will rush down to 45 nm ASAP.

But nahhh Toshiba and SCEI are simply just taking a huge risk and putting a few simple PPC cores on a chip at 65 nm because they want bragging rights because they will have a 65 nm chip before everyone else</sarcasm>

I see nothing here from sony saying the cell chip in the ps3 will give 1 tflop of performance. Jump all you want .Doesn't mean you are right .

(I am not saying the ps3 wont have a cell chip. I'm not saying that it will not hit 1tflop. But there is no offical comment made by sony saying the ps3 will have a 1tflop cell chip in it . Just that cell will be in the system. We all know cell is scalable. So the cell patent does not equal the ps3 patent. No matter how much some people want to claim that it makes the ps3 1tflop.)

 

[Paul]

"Okamoto said the console would be capable of 1 trillion floating-point operations per second"

July 2003 EGM.

 

[jvd]

"Okamoto said the console would be capable of 1 trillion floating-point operations per second"

July 2003 EGM.

Yes the console. That does not mean the cell chip . They can be adding in sound performance and graphic performance. Once again show me where it says the cell chip in the ps3 will be capable of 1tflop .

 

[Paul]

Besides you MISSED the entire point of the post, it was centered around proving this wrong.

It seems that these TFlops are intended to be available in
distributed game servers

This I proved wrong.