Rare to commit corporate suicide in sale to MS

[wazoo]

[
If you play games at 31 and you buy a console, why not buy an Xbox or a PS2 and just add Rayman 3 and either Blinx or Sly Cooper to your game mix for your kids?

when you'll get older and get some kids, you'll add one more thing to your reasoning. You do not want your kids to play some shitty games. It is called education. Since your examples are about platform games, why would I refuse to let my kids play the best of its genre, Mario ?

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Rayman 3, Blinx, and Sly Cooper will be good enough. Same goes for Tork, Psychonauts, Ratchet & Clank, possibly Vexx and even Dr. Muto. Is it worth suffering through sparse releases and lack of games just to play Mario instead of Rayman 3? Probably not. I bought my Gamecube primarily for ED and Metroid Prime. Nintendo would be wise to keep going in this direction...

 

[Goldni]

Whoa..I'd like a link to where the Xbox is selling (or has sold) a million more units than the Gamecube in the US. The last numbers I saw one said Xb over GC by 200,000- 250,000 units with the GCN tightening it up some at late. On a global basis the GC is a million ahead of the XB..is that what you meant to say?

Oh and whoever said SMS is more mature than GTA3, I agree. Like most everyone else my age (in thier 30s and who owns SMS) does. But I'm sure a few pimple faced MTV 14 year olds would not agree.

 

[bryanb]

Whoa..I'd like a link to where the Xbox is selling (or has sold) a million more units than the Gamecube in the US. The last numbers I saw one said Xb over GC by 200,000- 250,000 units with the GCN tightening it up some at late. On a global basis the GC is a million ahead of the XB..is that what you meant to say?

Oh and whoever said SMS is more mature than GTA3, I agree. Like most everyone else my age (in thier 30s and who owns SMS) does. But I'm sure a few pimple faced MTV 14 year olds would not agree.

Yeah he dreamed that one up. The last numbers I saw said that Xbox is leading the GC in the US by around 3 to 4 hundred thousand. The xbox sold more during the holidays and it had a couple good months following its price cut.

Just from memory take the last two months in the US:

July:

Xbox 158,000
GC 143,000

June:

XBox 250,00
GC 220,000

I think GameCube leads xbox by around 1.5 million in Japan. And by around 500,000 in the EU.

It will be interesting to see how quickly the 3rd party game developer tap goes off for the xbox in Japan. Its really just a matter of how much MS wants to bankroll the xbox. Also if they are paying the 3rd parties enough to cover the losses that they are incurring on games that barely sell anything.

 

[StefanS]

Rare employees comment on this issue:

"Well, to be honest, you could say I'm pretty bloody put about by the whole damn thing. You know, a few of us knew something was coming for quite a while but still; you learn the ins and outs of a certain system, it's quite technical, and then you suddenly thrust onto a new one, with a half-finished game in your hand. Not my idea of fun, personally."

"Well we're not really supposed to talk about it yet - if ever....but the short of it is that there is an extremely gray area. It's not straight forward yet. Nintendo is trying to keep most of the copyrights. In my opinion that's shit, because we made the games. That's not how it works though. Shame for Diddy and those games though. Won't quite be the same, you know?" "I'd probably get in a bit of trouble around here for saying this but I don't really mind. Sure it'll be a pain in the arse to make the switch, but I've been here for 10 years now. Change is always good. Maybe even for RareNet! ha. ha."

"From what I have been reading on your site and others, a lot of people seem to think we were obliged to Nintendo and vice versa. Honestly, its fun to read some of the things... dissenters they all yell! It's all business mate, and I can tell you that while a good half of the guys here are a bit upset, just as many look forward to working with the new system. Nothing will change with the quality. I do feel a bit bad for anyone who bought the nintendo box though."

"I'm glad to be out, really. I wish them all the best but I really enjoy programming for the 'cube."

http://www.rarenet.com/rareonrare.shtml

 

[Vince]

Rayman 3, Blinx, and Sly Cooper will be good enough. Same goes for Tork, Psychonauts, Ratchet & Clank, possibly Vexx and even Dr. Muto. Is it worth suffering through sparse releases and lack of games just to play Mario instead of Rayman 3? Probably not. I bought my Gamecube primarily for ED and Metroid Prime. Nintendo would be wise to keep going in this direction...

Wow, great parent your going to make . Gonna have to agree with Wazoo on this one. I mean, your whole attitude of "Fuck what my kids would like, I'm going to be a selfish ass and tell them tough" just reaks of immaturity.

Besides, it's a bill and a half - big deal. If they want it, parents will buy it for them. Some actually care about others > themselves.

Oh and whoever said SMS is more mature than GTA3, I agree. Like most everyone else my age (in thier 30s and who owns SMS) does. But I'm sure a few pimple faced MTV 14 year olds would not agree.

I won't say SMS is less mature, just diffrent. In sheer gameplay dynamics, it's perhaps more advanced - but in topic and theme it's clearly not 'more mature'.

Theirs this odd grey area where people trying to act older and more mature than they really are return to 'clean' and 'pure' things - things that are familiar to children who need these basic and brokedown ideals - and use them as a proclaimiation that they've advanced and no longer need the 'coolness' or 'fringe topics' that other games have. I think this is bullshit... who doesn't like an off-the-wall game or topic? Sopranoes for example, or The Shield are huge TV shows with similar ideals - target demographics in the 20's and 30's.

So, I take offense to the MTV, 14 year old pimple-faced comment - as the worlds changing. Not only are you older and trying to act mature, but so are they. Keeping with the MTV comment, They're now no longer drooling at Britney, but instead wishing they had the talent of a Michelle Branch or Vanessa Carlton. Look at the shifting in clothing sales and styles towards a more mature attire from a place like abercrombie or structure. Similarly, the same people are now looking at more mature games to play - GTA caters to these, where as SMS doesn't. The people who were playing Mario five years ago have now moved on and want something more mature, see the trend?

Quite frankly, I know of two people with GC's - ones a nostaglic guy just like you (doersn't have SMS yet) and the other is 8 and does. Not drawing conclusions, just personal experiences.

 

[Vince]

en you'll get older and get some kids, you'll add one more thing to your reasoning. You do not want your kids to play some shitty games. It is called education. Since your examples are about platform games, why would I refuse to let my kids play the best of its genre, Mario ?

I'm sorry, but this deserves a post. 'Education'? Are you serious? Who gives a rats ass if what they play is 'shitty'? They're playing a game - hopefully not ritually - and for a short period of time.

You recieve an education away from the game console doing that old-fashioned thing called reading, which promotes thought, stimulation, and insite into a wide range of ideals and subject matters. Teach them early and make them read frequently. You recieve an education at school, away from the console where they can study for extended period and balance school and socials. You recieve an education in the real world.

The idea is to Live in your world, Play in ours because they're world is a place to do just that, and only that - play. The sheer fact that you consider gaming a form of education enrages me. If anything, video gaming is the anti-education as it can be addictive to kids and keep them away from the books - where their asses belong.

SMS a form of education - this boards beginning to scare me

 

[Goldni]

The people who were playing Mario five years ago have now moved on and want something more mature, see the trend?

Ummm I was playing Mario 5 years ago. I was playing Mario 15 years ago as well. Your point is wrong. Most (well alot)of ppl who played Mario 5 years ago will be owned by SMS. At least the ppl who have stuck to games and are somewhat hardcore gamers will be smoking the crack that is Super Mariouana Sunshine. Dont give me this "now they are playing GTA3 cause they are mature" crap.

GTA3 caters to the easily impressionable MTV crowd yes. GTA3 is mindless violence (throwing a molatie cocktail into a crowd of people). GTA3 is waaay overrrated. GTA3 is slapstick gaming imo. GTA3 caters to the horny little teenagers that are watching MTV. Teens are bandwaggoners..you can attribute this to GTA3 success. GTA3 is kewl dude! Look they can play it all they want. It still IMO makes them more immature than ever. GTA3 is an immature game peroid. I'm not saying that cause I'm a 'sqeaky clean' 32 year old adult. I'm saying that cause I have lived enuf to have a better grasp of what is mature or what is immature moreso than a little pimple face punk 14 year old (the main audience GTA3 is being played by). One day when you've grown up an have had some kids of you own and are paying the bills you'll have a better understanding of what constitutes 'mature' or not.

They're now no longer drooling at Britney, but instead wishing they had the talent of a Michelle Branch or Vanessa Carlton.

uhh yeah right

 

[Vince]

They're now no longer drooling at Britney, but instead wishing they had the talent of a Michelle Branch or Vanessa Carlton.

uhh yeah right

Wow, and your going to lecture me on contemporary culture? Get out and look at the trends and styles.

Michelle Branch, Avril Lavigne, and Vanesse Carlton are billed and sold as the Anti-Britney's (especially Avril) - and they're massacuring her.

Hell, watch MTV before you talk; even they stated that their target demographics are maturing and this is why someone like Avril is ripping up the charts when 5 years ago she would have been overlooked.

Your so outta touch it's not even funny. Ever venture into the sunlight?

Ummm I was playing Mario 5 years ago. I was playing Mario 15 years ago as well. Your point is wrong.

No, your just not normal. For better or worse - your not.

Most (well alot)of ppl who played Mario 5 years ago will be owned by SMS. At least the ppl who have stuck to games and are somewhat hardcore gamers will be smoking the crack that is Super Mariouana Sunshine.

Ok, think what you want - doesn't mean your right.

GTA3 caters to the easily impressionable MTV crowd yes. GTA3 is mindless violence (throwing a molatie cocktail into a crowd of people). GTA3 is waaay overrrated. GTA3 is slapstick gaming imo. GTA3 caters to the horny little teenagers that are watching MTV. Teens are bandwaggoners..you can attribute this to GTA3 success. GTA3 is kewl dude! Look they can play it all they want. It still IMO makes them more immature than ever. GTA3 is an immature game peroid.

Right, I love how people can generalize anything without proof. Explain to me how so many 14 year olds can buy GTA3...

I'm not saying that cause I'm a 'sqeaky clean' 32 year old adult. I'm saying that cause I have lived enuf to have a better grasp of what is mature or what is immature moreso than a little pimple face punk 14 year old (the main audience GTA3 is being played by). One day when you've grown up an have had some kids of you own and are paying the bills you'll have a better understanding of what constitutes 'mature' or not.

Ok, and I guess it's the pimple-faced 14 year olds that make people like Dennis Leary, Chris Rock, or the ultimate mother-f'er, Andrew Dice Clay, such huge stars.

Thats right, because I guess the rest of us in our 20's haven't reached your level of maturity - as neither have the people in their 40's and 50's who go. Thats it... keep thinking it's everyone but you...

BTW - 'Kewl' is only funny outta Kristoff's mouth - I'm sorry

 

[Goldni]

Hell, watch MTV before you talk; even they stated that their target demographics are maturing and this is why someone like Avril is ripping up the charts when 5 years ago she would have been overlooked.

Not thanks. I'd rather watch the 24 Underware Outlet Channel. It's about as interesting and actually less repetitive. About MTV's 'target demographic' i/m sure it's maturing which is why alot of them are not watching it anymore (VH1).

Quote:

GTA3 caters to the easily impressionable MTV crowd yes. GTA3 is mindless violence (throwing a molatie cocktail into a crowd of people). GTA3 is waaay overrrated. GTA3 is slapstick gaming imo. GTA3 caters to the horny little teenagers that are watching MTV. Teens are bandwaggoners..you can attribute this to GTA3 success. GTA3 is kewl dude! Look they can play it all they want. It still IMO makes them more immature than ever. GTA3 is an immature game peroid.



Right, I love how people can generalize anything without proof. Explain to me how so many 14 year olds can buy GTA3...

Yeah just like people generalize about Mario being a kids game. And yes 14 year olds are playing GTA3 in droves. How they're buying it is not my concern nor care. That's fine if they want to pretend they are mature and doing the 'cool' thing. To them it is. Whatever. If they think that then fine. But they (the 14 year old example) have'nt a shred of credability saying SMS is actually 'less' mature. In thier inexperienced eyes it may be. But in many an adult's eye THEY are the ones who are actually immature.

Look I agree with your comments on what Johnny Awsome and Wazoo were talking about. We are not as far off ( in disagreement) as you are acting here.

Thats right, because I guess the rest of us in our 20's haven't reached your level of maturity - as neither have the people in their 40's and 50's who go. Thats it... keep thinking it's everyone but you...

I'm not saying that necessarily. But I agree that people who are 10 to 15 years older than me are probably more mature in several ways. Just like I'm alot more mature than people who are 15 to 20. Using the 'me playing Mario 15 years ago example', I'm not ashamed of playing Mario. I dont look back and say "damn I was sooo immature playing that game." But I can guarantee you that about 10 or 15 years from now there'll be alot of 20, 25 and 30 year olds who look back and think about how immature GTA3 really was. Oh it was THE cool thing back then but looking back it was so silly trying to be hip. Hell I look back just 5 years ago and some of the things I said or did was so stupid. As someone posted earlier. There were just as many 20 to 35 year olds watching Shrek and Monsters Inc as there were little kids. Just like there were as many or more 25 to 35 year olds buying SMS. Again it's fine if you genuinely like GTA3. But I dont need ANY kid telling me that a game like SMS is 'immature' or just for kids. Same goes for SMB2. It's an amazing game btw.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Xbox has a higher number of quality games out right now than Gamecube IMO.

that is the funniest thing I have heard in a LONG time, unless you are counting maybe owning multiple copies of Halo..

I think the review scores of all these supposed AAA titles have spoken for themselves
(Dead to Rights scores averaging 6 to 7/10,
Buffy averaging the same, Bruce Lees beautiful 3/10...it has not really had any quality titles since Halo and Rallisport(and Rallisport is subject to taste, but since I like it, I will give it the go).

GC has had quite a nice run of games scoring between 8-10...
anything under that is mediocre to ok....not quality.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

The top 5 Xbox games received better reviews and hardcore mags like Edge magazine than the Gamecube games have.

It's funny that you list the likes of Buffy (which is good) and DTR as big Xbox titles and ignore amazing games like JSRF, GUNVALKYRIE, PGR, Sega GT 2002 and Amped.

On the issue of Mario: I find it hilarious that people would call someone a bad parent for giving their kid Blinx (assuming it lives up to expectations) instead of Mario Sunshine, since both games are AAA quality titles. Any kid that complains he's getting Blinx instead of Mario is a spoiled brat as far as I'm concerned. If he were to specifically ask for SMS, I would probably change my mind, but that wasn't my original point.

Vince, I find it hard to believe that you aren't a selfish person yourself, given the way you behave towards others on this board. Stop being such a rude ass.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

I am not going to go by one magazing, I go with gamerankings for a broader appeal.

lets check these quality titles

Gunvalkrie-
Gamespot-62/100
gamepro- 40/100
gamers.com-50/100
electric playground-60/100

Amped
Gamespot- 67/100
Games Domain 70/100
gamepro - 80/100

None of them score anything stellar, and most are just run of the mill games you can find 1000 better clones of on PS2. JSRF- not my bag...terrible game IMO.

and I love how you say Blinx is AAA, when its not out yet, wait for the release before we jump the gun, so far every raved over game on the system has disapointed..

 

[nonamer]

I am not going to go by one magazing, I go with gamerankings for a broader appeal.

lets check these quality titles

Gunvalkrie-
Gamespot-62/100
gamepro- 40/100
gamers.com-50/100
electric playground-60/100

Amped
Gamespot- 67/100
Games Domain 70/100
gamepro - 80/100

None of them score anything stellar, and most are just run of the mill games you can find 1000 better clones of on PS2. JSRF- not my bag...terrible game IMO.

Actually, according to gamerankings.com:
GUNVALKYRIE: 74.3%
AMPED: 81.0%
JSRF: 87.7%
PGR: 85.8%
Sega GT 2002: 83.3%
DTR: 76.0%

 

[CaptainHowdy]

thats an average, but when you have sites like
Xbox.ign.com that would give a high score to a turd
if it had the XBox logo on it, that brings it up a tad..
the fact that this many negatives exist from highly
reputable sites, I think that says it all, find a Mario Score that low
an Eternal Darkness, SSB:M, Rogue Leader, RE, Pikmin,
hell even a Luigis mansion... not as easy..

 

[nonamer]

thats an average, but when you have sites like
Xbox.ign.com that would give a high score to a turd
if it had the XBox logo on it, that brings it up a tad..
the fact that this many negatives exist from highly
reputable sites, I think that says it all, find a Mario Score that low
an Eternal Darkness, SSB:M, Rogue Leader, RE, Pikmin,
hell even a Luigis mansion... not as easy..

Not really. There are shitty scores from reputable sites of the games mentioned above too. Go to gamerankings.com again. They have pretty much every score ever given stashed somewhere. Also, you're comparing the best of the GC to the better-than-average but not best of the Xbox. If you were to add in games like Halo or Morrowind, you'll see that Xbox and GC aren't that far apart in terms of scores. I guess it's personal preference mainly.

 

[wazoo]

I'm sorry, but this deserves a post. 'Education'? Are you serious? Who gives a rats ass if what they play is 'shitty'? They're playing a game - hopefully not ritually - and for a short period of time.

ok; the word was bad (I tried to find in english a short word for what I meant). I mean, I - and some parent would not agree, since they do not care about what their kids do/see/learn/etc -, so I think that videogames is like every hobby, you have bad programs and good programs. And in the same way, I would not let my kids see what I consider bad TV programs, or bad movies (bad TV or bad movies are much easier to define than bad games), I would try to make them understand what I consider good games. I that respect, it is not completely disconnected to what we call education, which is trying to educate your kids and make them understand what is good or bad in order to educate their tastes. so yes, it is not education, the word was out of place but it is practically what you do with your kids all the time.

Rayman 3, Blinx, and Sly Cooper will be good enough.

First, as you said yourself, if they ask SMS, they'll get it. Just try to give anything else than Pokemon to a 10 years old ... Second, if I already own a xbox and no GC, maybe I'll get one of those game, provided it is good (I think Sly will be). In the case I do not own a console, I'll go with the best choice for my kids, and this is the GC. As a parent, I'm never happy with something "good enough". I just want the best for my kids.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

and to follow the same stupid logic..
how about...
"Why Get Halo, when Metroid Prime is "Good Enough"
"Why get Buffy when Eternal Darkness is...well, actually, it kicks the crap out of Buffy"
"Why Get Bruce Lee when, you can play with Kitty litter for free"

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Well you see, if Metroid Prime comes out and is 9/10ths the game that Halo is I would actually agree with you. Why get an Xbox if you can get a Gamecube with a game that is 9/10ths as good and a bunch of other exclusive stuff that you want.

The catch with what I'm saying is that until now there hasn't been a platformer that is 9/10ths as good as Mario64, so obviously if you wanted the best platformer in the 32bit era you would need an N64. I think this is going to change this generation, although Mario Sunshine is certainly the best 3D platformer available right now.

I don't think Metroid Prime will provide the same experience Halo does anyway. Halo is about Co-op and squad-type FPS gameplay. Metroid Prime is more of an adventure game with good FPS and 3rd person mechanics. I look forward to it, but it isn't the same type of game really.

 

[aneep]

uhh i remember when i bring up gamerankings and that was was quickly shot down as irrelevent as one taste in games varies from another (which i agree now)

but still if u want to use gamerankings, at least point out how many got 90%+, 80&+, 70%+ , etc etc on each platforms

we'll get a clearer picture that way which platform by your reasoning have more excellent games(90+), more above avg(70-89), more avg(50-69), more crappy games(less than 50) than the other

-aneep-