R420 Hints from people under NDA!

micron said:
hstewarth said:
II personal have a Top of Line 4600 for 8.x series and for for GFX, I settle on lower cost 5700 Ultra
You upgraded to a 5700U from a Ti4600?!?!

All related to what I am doing with computers at home...

I own 4 P4's with 3 of them as HT's for render nodes and desired to have another Video card on one of my new machines.. I installed the 5700 Ultra and like the perfmance of it so much, I kept it on my main machine.

Currently one of my new HT's uses Intel's internal, with the 6800 Ultra, I planned to move the 5700 Ultra to that machine.

Main machine is a 3.2Ghz P4 P4C800 1Gig of ram 240G hard disk. Others are 2.8, 2.6 and a 2.26.

All I am saying is for me, not since the 4600 is it worth to get top of line card.

One thing I found out with rendering, I found out it more important to have more machines than more memory. I try the 2gig thing it doesn't help as much as 2 HT's machines.
 
Re: No indications of valid info on Rage3d

hstewarth said:
Maybe true for FarCry - but unlikely for Unreal 3. Also what was shown with FarCry was PS 3.0 modifications.. some one post an image of FarCry on ATI to prove this wrong.

Who cares about the Unrealengine 3 for this generation? NV50 and R500 will be out before a game ships using the engine.
 
McDusty said:
DW Fan!!!!! said:
Oh they did, check the photos of the them from the bittech article while they were blown up on screen, its written underneath PS2.0.

I thought they'd simply said something like this "look at ps 3.0, doesn't it look better than older cards". But I just looked at Bittech and your right!

Well, thats very naughty of Nvidia, very naughty indeed.

Got a link to those pics?
 
trinibwoy said:
Must have missed all his bragging...he even says that the best thing for everyone is for both companies to be relatively equal. It's a sad thing when somebody reads another person's opinion on a video card and reacts like they b*tch slapped his mother.

I like mermaids......

Here is his original post that after being challenged he waffled and did a complete 180 its nothing but hypocrytical BS and that pisses me off.

I see no indications of any valid information on Rage3d. It appears to me there trying down play the 6800 Ultra and its amazing PS 3.0 support.

I am trying to see if ATI current cards can do what FarCry and Unreal 3 demos are showing.. I don't believe so.. In fact I doubt the R420 can do it without PS 3.0 support.

I am curious what can ATI do to complete with NVidia now.. it sounds like to me its going to very hard.. with so many developers supporting PS 3.0 and so many good reviews..

I think it is same as the last LOTR movies - ie "Return of the King" - in this case I mean NVidia.

No matter what with 6800 Ultra it definetly shows that NVidia is sick and tired of the GFX jokes.

Of course we really don't know what will happen until ATI 420 is out, but in my opinion ATI is scared and thats why they are down playing PS 3.0. A couple of weeks we will know the truth.
_________________
Exploration of humanity.
 
Re: No indications of valid info on Rage3d

hstewarth said:
Maybe true for FarCry - but unlikely for Unreal 3. Also what was shown with FarCry was PS 3.0 modifications.. some one post an image of FarCry on ATI to prove this wrong.

Far Cry PS 2.0 looks very, very similar to PS3.0. If you listen to the presentation videos, the Crytek developer always says "PS2.0 or PS 3.0". Nvidia would like us to believe that there is a massive difference between 2.0 and 3.0, but I can tell you that my 9700 Pro looks almost identical quality to the picture Nvidia showed.

You probably won't be using NV40 for Unreal Engine 3 games either, because:

- NV40 will be the absolute baseline graphics card for UE3 games. You will have to turn down settings and/or resolution.

- Unreal Engine 3 games arn't due for another two years, ie when we'll be looking forward to the refreshes of at least NV50 and R500.
 
fallguy said:
McDusty said:
DW Fan!!!!! said:
Oh they did, check the photos of the them from the bittech article while they were blown up on screen, its written underneath PS2.0.

I thought they'd simply said something like this "look at ps 3.0, doesn't it look better than older cards". But I just looked at Bittech and your right!

Well, thats very naughty of Nvidia, very naughty indeed.

Got a link to those pics?

It may not be NVidia but the site that post it. The real truith of PS 3.0/VS 3.0 is when update of FarCry comes out that supports DX9.0c and we can see the difference for ourselves.
 
hstewarth said:
fallguy said:
McDusty said:
DW Fan!!!!! said:
Oh they did, check the photos of the them from the bittech article while they were blown up on screen, its written underneath PS2.0.

I thought they'd simply said something like this "look at ps 3.0, doesn't it look better than older cards". But I just looked at Bittech and your right!

Well, thats very naughty of Nvidia, very naughty indeed.

Got a link to those pics?

It may not be NVidia but the site that post it. The real truith of PS 3.0/VS 3.0 is when update of FarCry comes out that supports DX9.0c and we can see the difference for ourselves.

Oh ok. I thought nVidia has marked it as PS 2.0.
 
Stryyder, you are comparing two different people in your response, so it can't be a turn around..

I am going to stop posting in this stupid thread... all I can say ... the war is back between NVidia and ATI.
 
Stryyder said:
Here is his original post that after being challenged he waffled and did a complete 180 its nothing but hypocrytical BS and that pisses me off.

I see no indications of any valid information on Rage3d. It appears to me there trying down play the 6800 Ultra and its amazing PS 3.0 support.

This is probably true given that Rage3d tends to the ATI side of things and the Inq had that story on the ATI presenter's notes saying to downplay PS 3.0. If I was ATI I would downlplay it too - nothing to get steamed about.

I am trying to see if ATI current cards can do what FarCry and Unreal 3 demos are showing.. I don't believe so.. In fact I doubt the R420 can do it without PS 3.0 support.

Last I checked phrases like "I don't believe" and "I doubt" are meant to relay an opinion not a statement of fact. You can't get mad because of what he "believes"

I am curious what can ATI do to complete with NVidia now.. it sounds like to me its going to very hard.. with so many developers supporting PS 3.0 and so many good reviews..

Since when "I am curious" = "No way in hell ATI can compete with Nvidia"??

I think it is same as the last LOTR movies - ie "Return of the King" - in this case I mean NVidia.

LOL....I know you didnt get mad at this lame analogy.

No matter what with 6800 Ultra it definetly shows that NVidia is sick and tired of the GFX jokes.

Harmless and definitely true....nothing against ATI here

Of course we really don't know what will happen until ATI 420 is out

100% valid and more openminded than many of the so called fanboys on either side of the fence.

but in my opinion ATI is scared and thats why they are down playing PS 3.0. A couple of weeks we will know the truth.

He is obviously speculating as nearly every other person on this board does and again he reiterates that everything will come to pass in the coming weeks.

What did he say to get you so worked up? That's what I'd like to know :D
 
Re: No indications of valid info on Rage3d

John Reynolds said:
hstewarth said:
Maybe true for FarCry - but unlikely for Unreal 3. Also what was shown with FarCry was PS 3.0 modifications.. some one post an image of FarCry on ATI to prove this wrong.

Who cares about the Unrealengine 3 for this generation? NV50 and R500 will be out before a game ships using the engine.

Isn't this the board where people often talk about how most people only upgrade their card every two yeard (and I think you'll find that's not conservative enough), and how future performance is an important factor in a purchasing decision.

Since we're already a quarter of the way into 2004, and the new cards aren't even out yet, I couldn't see Unreal 3 being more relevant. Whether you're buying for it or not, the likelihood is it'll be out while you still own tech for this generation, if you're upgrading now. If that shouldn't factor into a purchasing decision, let's stop this nonsense about considering future games, and admit that the talk of good PS2.0 support was important for the R3xx was a bunch of old tosh. We won't because it's not true, so let's not pretend 2005 isn't relevant to 2004 cards.
 
Re: No indications of valid info on Rage3d

Quitch said:
Since we're already a quarter of the way into 2004, and the new cards aren't even out yet, I couldn't see Unreal 3 being more relevant.

We won't because it's not true, so let's not pretend 2005 isn't relevant to 2004 cards.

IIRC, Sweeney said in his recent interview that he doesn't expect UE3 games before mid-2006 (assuming they arn't delayed, which they probably will be), and that the NV4x/R4x0 will only meet the minimum specs. This puts UE3 games right at the end of your two year window.

In fact, I expect anyone who buys a NV40 or R4x0 will be prompted to upgrade to a newer generation card by the poor performance of UE3 games (if that's the kind of games they are into).
 
Since we're already a quarter of the way into 2004, and the new cards aren't even out yet, I couldn't see Unreal 3 being more relevant. Whether you're buying for it or not, the likelihood is it'll be out while you still own tech for this generation, if you're upgrading now. If that shouldn't factor into a purchasing decision, let's stop this nonsense about considering future games, and admit that the talk of good PS2.0 support was important for the R3xx was a bunch of old tosh. We won't because it's not true, so let's not pretend 2005 isn't relevant to 2004 cards.

I don't understand what you are talking about .

The only reason why there weren't p.s 2.0 games out the first year of ati's launch is because they were delayed (doom3 and half life 2 ) .

Unreal 3 engine is supposed to be done in 2 years . Most likely a game will come out in 2 -3 years .

If that is indeed the first game that requires 3.0 or higher that is 2 years in which people will upgrade their cards .

Thats assuming that people upgrade their card with the 6800ultra.


Of course i don't understand why these p.s 3.0 games can't be run on p.s 2.0 hardware .

As a matter of fact why would they build a p.s 3.0 only game ?

The r3x0 cores will be the main sellers for a long time (they only support 2.0) and the nv3x line will be too (they onyl run 1.4 at reasonable speeds )

I don't see either of these cores going away anytime soon. True they will drop to the low end . Most likely an rv360 at the sub 100$ msrp. But that will only allow it to continue selling better than the nv4x and r42x .

Not to mention the 2 years of sales these cores already have .

Imho it will be the step after p.s 3.0 that will be the next baseline for games .

Not to knock the nv4x because its a great fast card with alot of features.

But hey. I bought the r200 thinking that p.s 1.4 would be the next big thing and I was wrong. For the same reasons i see p.s 3.0 not taking off anytime soon . Even if the r42x supports it .
 
Guden Oden said:
Anyway, I wonder if R420 and derivates will have anything like Nvidia's programmable video processor; if not, NV may well have an edge there no matter what the performance. Some may think NV4x are fast enough and that shaders 3.0 + programmable video accelerator throughout the entire product line tips the balance in favor for NV...

Not that I've read the rest of this thread, but ATI already has a programmable video processor - they use the shaders.
 
Unreal 3 is irrelevant.

Epic has stated that there target is next-next-gen cards - ie R500 / NV50. NV40 / R420 is only capable of running the engine at 20 odd frames per second. Thats when your looking at characters / levels seperately. That 1m polygon world they showed on NV40 had a low frame rate and it would be considerable lower if it was populated with characters + physics + sound etc.
 
McDusty said:
fallguy said:
Got a link to those pics?

http://www.bit-tech.net/feature/43/1

The pics could have been altered. Who knows?

heres the pics, in higher quality

first, the supposed 2.0:

farcry_before_stair2.jpg


farcry_before_bud2.jpg


which was actually 1.x, and i'll explain that in a sec

then, the 3.0:

farcry_after_stair2.jpg


farcry_after_bud2.jpg


nvidia actually cheated on these tests, and the 'before' pictures, which are allegedly running pixel shader 2.0, are infact, running 1.x, and with the settings of the game cranked down to make it look even worse...

heres the retraction:

Update: We are looking into some questions posed to us about these screenshots in our forums; most notably: what setting are the "before" images using on FarCry.

Update2: While we still try to get ahold of this mod, below is the official statement from NVIDIA on these screenshots. The first screenshots are NOT using PS2.0, but PS1.x instead.

heres what pixel shader 2.0 really looks like:

FarCry0015.sized.jpg


FarCry12.jpg


as you can see, pixel shader 2.0 is NOT as big of a step down from ps3.0 as nvidia would like for us to believe=)

sources - rage3d forums, pc perspective news

(sorry if this post is redundant, but its getting to be a long thread, better to show everything)
 
Displacement Bump Mapping via the Vertex Shaders is enough difference for me with regards to PS 2.0 and 3.0 :)

The other being flow control.
 
Maintank said:
Displacement Bump Mapping via the Vertex Shaders is enough difference for me with regards to PS 2.0 and 3.0 :)

The other being flow control.

That would be VS 3.0. not PS3.0
 
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