Qualcomm Adreno 4xx

[Rys]

Figured I'd start a dedicated thread for 4xx, now that Adreno 430 and 418 are out in the open with Snapdragon 808 and 810.

Announcement.

Looks like 20nm for the 810 is confirmed, given the perf up, power down claims, versus 805/Adreno 420.

 

[Helmore]

AnandTech has an article on these Snapdragon 808 and 810 chipsets here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7925/...bit-socs-with-lte-category-67-support-in-2015

 

[sebbbi]

Another chip with confirmed OpenGL ES 3.1 support. I am very happy

 

[loekf]

Another chip with confirmed OpenGL ES 3.1 support. I am very happy

So where the 64-bits Krait CPU ? Another year out ? Anand says "later this year".... for any announcement.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

So Qualcomm is publicly acknowledging that a big.LITTLE configuration using ARM's A5x architecture is better than the quad-core Kraits?

 

[silent_guy]

So Qualcomm is publicly acknowledging that a big.LITTLE configuration using ARM's A5x architecture is better than the quad-core Kraits?

It's probably saying that their own 64bit core isn't ready yet, and they're being pragmatic. No customer is going to care whether or not it's a Qualcomm designed core. 64-bit or not is a different story.

 

[Ailuros]

So Qualcomm is publicly acknowledging that a big.LITTLE configuration using ARM's A5x architecture is better than the quad-core Kraits?

Why waste time to develop and optimise something like say aSMP with quad A57 cores when they intend to use them only as mid life kicker until their own 64bit CPUs are ready?

 

[Alexko]

Why waste time to develop and optimise something like say aSMP with quad A57 cores when they intend to use them only as mid life kicker until their own 64bit CPUs are ready?

It's not entirely impossible that they will use big.LITTLE with Krait cores and A53s eventually, of if that's not possible because Krait cores are incompatible, with the inevitable 64-bit variant of the A17.

Besides, it's Qualcomm we're talking about, and it's their first 20nm SoC. This chip will sell in the dozens of millions.

 

[Exophase]

Why waste time to develop and optimise something like say aSMP with quad A57 cores when they intend to use them only as mid life kicker until their own 64bit CPUs are ready?

Let's say Samsung intends to have a Cortex-A57 based SoC ready themselves in 1H 2015, so it can be used in some markets for Galaxy S6. I don't think they'll want to dual-source that with a 32-bit SoC. The result would be using the Samsung SoC for the entire line or even sourcing MediaTek. The same scenario can hold for other OEMs..

Giving up high end phones for even two quarters, during a time when a lot of big Android phones launch, would be pretty bad for Qualcomm.

If it were just a matter of rushing to bolt on 64-bit support to Krait they may have done that (although I could be underestimating the effort necessary even for just this), but I think they'd still ultimately have a noticeably less competitive CPU even ignoring 64-bit. I expect their true 64-bit Krait offering to bring with it substantial uarch modifications too, which would be what is really driving the release schedule.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Let's say Samsung intends to have a Cortex-A57 based SoC ready themselves in 1H 2015

They've had first silicon back in December and are pushing out public Linux patches for the SoC since February. My guess they'll have it much much earlier than that.

 

[DSC]

It's obvious Qualcomm got caught with their pants down when Apple Cyclone 64bit ARMV8 came around and there's no way they can develop a 64bit architecture in 1 year.

 

[Exophase]

I don't think it's competition from Apple pressuring Qualcomm directly nearly as much as it's MediaTek, Samsung, and maybe to some degree nVidia. Apple going 64-bit isn't totally irrelevant, but the whole iOS vs Android battle is a lot more entrenched than that, I think few people were convinced to move to iOS because they're 64-bit now. 64-bit could more easily tip one Android device in favor of another.

We can already see Qualcomm (sadly) giving in to marketing pressure from MediaTek by making an 8 core A53 SoC.

 

[wishiknew]

Real nice of Qualcomm to announce this just days before the S5 goes on sale.

 

[Mariner]

Doesn't really matter, though, does it? We'll not be seeing anything containing Adreno 4xx for at least six months and the Snapdragon 808/810 won't be here for another year. Not exactly Osborning the 801 or the SGS5 when they aren't going to have anything more powerful available for 12 months!

 

[Ailuros]

It's not entirely impossible that they will use big.LITTLE with Krait cores and A53s eventually, of if that's not possible because Krait cores are incompatible, with the inevitable 64-bit variant of the A17.

Honestly I'd like to see such a scenario first before I'll even think of it.

Besides, it's Qualcomm we're talking about, and it's their first 20nm SoC. This chip will sell in the dozens of millions.

That has nothing to do with what I said and I'm afraid Exophase missed my point by a greater extend. Tottentranz said something about QCOM indirectly admitting that big.LITTLE is better than aSMP. And again given the relatively small lifetime those SoCs will have until QCOMs own 64bit CPU SoCs arrive it wouldn't had been worth the hustle to develop/adjust any aSMP method for ARM A57 cores and not use big.LITTLE instead.

I don't see QCOM admitting anything directly or indirectly; it's to me just a temporary necessary "evil" (and yes while I like big.LITTLE I still personally prefer aSMP to set that one clear).

 

[Erinyes]

It's probably saying that their own 64bit core isn't ready yet, and they're being pragmatic. No customer is going to care whether or not it's a Qualcomm designed core. 64-bit or not is a different story.

Exactly..though I think we were all surprised to see that Qualcomm would be using A57 for their first 64 bit parts..I'm sure everyone expected them to be ready with a 64 bit Krait core. And given how quickly Apple was able to do it, one wouldn't have though Qualcomm would be so far behind. Its looking like their own 64 bit Krait wont be ready till H2'15 at the earliest, 2 years behind Apple.

It's obvious Qualcomm got caught with their pants down when Apple Cyclone 64bit ARMV8 came around and there's no way they can develop a 64bit architecture in 1 year.

Its not like Qualcomm would have started development only after Apple announced Cyclone..but I guess either their scheduling was off..or they had a delay. So they had to use A57 as a stopgap. As the saying goes..the easiest way to lose a fight is to not show up at all.


Edit: Forgot to add..I am confused by the positioning of the 808. They mean it to be a successor to 801, but it has only 2 A57's along with 4 A53's. The 801 it is supposed to replace has quad Krait 400's. Now I'm sure marketing will spin the 808 as a "hex core" and hence better than quad (Though in this case it is a true hex core as all six cores can be active at once), but looking at performance, would dual A57+quad A53 be able to beat quad Krait 400's? And how would they compare on power?

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

would dual A57+quad A53 be able to beat quad Krait 400's? And how would they compare on power?

If they don't clock them too conservatively, pretty sure that yes. At least the 400, since we don't have numbers on the 450's yet.

 

[Helmore]

Isn't the Krait 450 pretty much a Krait 400 with slightly better caches and clocked a little higher? I personally don't expect much of a difference in performance and maybe no difference clock for clock. I could be wrong of course.

 

[Ailuros]

If they don't clock them too conservatively, pretty sure that yes. At least the 400, since we don't have numbers on the 450's yet.

If they clock them too aggressively on the other hand it might be easy to beat A, B or C single handed, but also at the cost of quite a bit more power consumption. I don't know yet how the picture looks like with A57s, but with A15 R3 cores I have the impression that even 2.1GHz for a smartphone SoC is quite aggressive.

 

[UniversalTruth]

Figured I'd start a dedicated thread for 4xx, now that Adreno 430 and 418 are out in the open with Snapdragon 808 and 810.

Announcement.

Looks like 20nm for the 810 is confirmed, given the perf up, power down claims, versus 805/Adreno 420.

Very intriguing to me why the so large difference in specifications between 808 and 810. One with DDR3, the other with DDR4, the first with limited display resolution support, the second with much improved...