Evil_Cloud
Veteran
PC-Engine said:
I like the way you phrased that...it's true though
It's not that they sell shit or something... Just a simplistic comparison
PSP ??
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It's not that they sell shit or something... Just a simplistic comparison
london-boy said:PC-Engine said:Yes millions of people are enjoying pirated PSX games all over the globe.
funny...er.... ur point?
It's tempting to own a PSX in other words most people would buy one
Just like PC vs Mac. Why get a Mac when one can get the loads of PC software available on the market for free? Heck all you need to do is get a barebones PC and install a free copy of Windows from you neighbor
Same with the PSX...
PC-Engine said:london-boy said:PC-Engine said:Yes millions of people are enjoying pirated PSX games all over the globe.
funny...er.... ur point?
It's tempting to own a PSX in other words most people would buy one
Just like PC vs Mac. Why get a Mac when one can get the loads of PC software available on the market for free?
ok PCengine. Sony won the last generation and is winning this one because of piracy.... wow thats new... u always surprise me with ur statements... what's next?
Panajev2001a
Veteran
Already used this part with the GBA...
The better specs of the PSP ( which should sit between PSX and PlayStation 2 ) are not the only thing...
It is the games...
In particular cartdridges vs a relatively cheap yet MASSIVE optical disc.
Current GBA developers are not making very high margins even of relatively succesful titles as the carts are a big part of the games' cost and often they have to cut corners left and right because going to a bigger ROM size for them might be completely out of the budget...
As far as gamers go... having the first portable machine capable of true, decent 3D ( with that screen size and very high pixel density the games will not look that bad
) will not be a bad thing... think about a Vice City port, a SOTN port, a new Metal Gear ( or a port ) a Silent Hill game, Madden, NBA Live, LOK: Soul Reaver, etc... MP3 playback ( thanks to this and the big UMD we will have great quality music and sound effects ), Divx movies playback ( gorgeous FMVs possible ), etc...Deano, of course Nintendo will want to counteract this with a GBA 2, but IMHO the GBA 2 they had in the R&D labs was not designed to compete with the PSP, but was designed as a successor of the current GBA and GBA SP and with Nintendo still in a position of monopoly of the handheld market...
Also, is Nintendo going to release the GBA 2 next year when the PSP launches ?
Will gamers like having one NEW GBA launched every year ? ( GBA -> GBA SP -> GBA 2... )
V3 said:GB classics wasn't doing too well either, it was in a brink of death, till the thing called Pokemon suddenly show up out of no where and save GB and Nintendo with it. Though Pokemon success didn't happend overnight or in a week, that virus, never go away even till today
Please explain to me how you could say the GB was on the brink of death with a straight face.
Pokémon only served to enhance GB's position dramatically; it didn't save it from near death.
On PSP v. N-Gage: Actually, I think this is very true - Sony's going to have the same effect on N-Gage's life as on Dreamcast's. Many people skipped DC because they knew PS2 was coming up. The biggest dev houses ignored it in favour of readying their PS2 games, and learning its architecture. Nokia will probably persevere much better than Sega did (after all, Nokia isn't bleeding money like Sega already had been before DC), but TBH, in light of the brutal war that will surely happen between Nintendo and Sony in the handheld sector... I really doubt N-Gage has any chance of surviving.
It's winning this one because it had a headstart
Headstart = more games = more buyers
The Emotion Synthesis et al hype helped. Were there any launch games worth playing? Hey let's buy this thing to play multiregion DVDs and play old PSX games
If it can play all the GB, GBC, and GBA games and it's cheap why not? They all had improvements over the previous model. Take a GBA SP, add more memory and a PowerVR MBXII and you're pretty much set.
Oh, by the way, people talking about storage: Nintendo already has a new ROM technology (which GBA actually can use) which supports unbelievable 256MB + sizes and isn't any more expensive than current mask ROM tech. 512MB was one of the sizes initially mentioned, which basically just about means a CD on a ROM chip ^_^ And if they can get up to 1024MB... that's a GD-ROM right there. Dreamcast ports for the next Game Boy?
512MB was one of the sizes initially mentioned, which basically just about means a CD on a ROM chip ^_^ And if they can get up to 1024MB... that's a GD-ROM right there. Dreamcast ports for the next Game Boy? PC-Engine said:
It's winning this one because it had a headstart
Headstart = more games = more buyers
The Emotion Synthesis et al hype helped. Were there any launch games worth playing? Hey let's buy this thing to play multiregion DVDs and play old PSX games
oh dear...
right PCengine, so let's see your extremely valid points once again...
1) u said Sony is only winning because of Hype
2) u said that Sony is only winning because of Piracy
3) u said Sony is only winning because it had a headstart...
we went through all this a long time ago....
if there's one reason why won last generation and is winning this one is because of good marketing in PS1 generation, giving them enough *good image points* to win this one... do u really think all those things u said? if so i feel sorry for u...
if there were no quality behind PS1 and PS2, do u really think they would have succeded by such a long margin over the competition? PS2 is not selling 10 times more than Xbox TODAY because of the headstart. the headstart only gave PS2 something like 10 million more machines in the market. if quality wasnt there, then Xbox would have started to pick up the pace and sell more on a per week basis...
Panajev2001a
Veteran
I am starting to expect Cell maybe... with a MIPS32 core as the PU...
What we could have is a PE with PU, e-DRAM, 4 APU ( working on graphics and assisting sound processing ) and 1 Pixel Engine, Image Cache and a display controller.
( No we would not have double digits e-DRAM )...
We can clock the puppy at 300 MHz and we would get...
300 MPixels ( 480x272 * 60 = ~7.83 MPixels/s... so we could sustain 60 fps with an overdraw of... ~38x )
FLOPS rating = 9.6 GFLOPS... 8 FP ops/(cycles* APU) * 4 APUs * 300 MHz
What I find here is that we can safely either reduce the clock speed or reduce the number of APUs ( 9.6 GFLOPS would rate the PSP quite a bit above the PlayStation 2's EE )...
We could maybe have only a single APU...
That would mean 2.4 GFLOPS... this is more than what the Dreamcast SH-4 could do but since we might see the APU helping with Sound and maybe a bit of rendering ( even though I see bi-linear filtering built-in the Pixel Engine+Image Cache part )...
2.4 GFLOPS, 2.4 GOPS ( in this area, Integer performance, this chip obliterates the Emotion Engine... but we might need fast Integer Processing... ) and 300 MPixels/s ( we only need a Z-buffer, no need of using deferred rendering... we could do deferred T&L by transfroming the NURBS control points and tesselating only the portions of the NURBS that are visible )... this doesn't look too bad to me...
1 PU ( MIPS32 core ) + 1 APU ( with 128 KB of Local Storage and 4 FP Units, 4 Integer Units and 128 of 128 bits wide registers )+ e-DRAM ( ~2-8 MB, I do not see much more with 90 nm technology ) + 1 Pixel Engine + Image Cache ( separate from the e-DRAM ) + Display Controller...
What we could have is a PE with PU, e-DRAM, 4 APU ( working on graphics and assisting sound processing ) and 1 Pixel Engine, Image Cache and a display controller.
( No we would not have double digits e-DRAM )...
We can clock the puppy at 300 MHz and we would get...
300 MPixels ( 480x272 * 60 = ~7.83 MPixels/s... so we could sustain 60 fps with an overdraw of... ~38x )
FLOPS rating = 9.6 GFLOPS... 8 FP ops/(cycles* APU) * 4 APUs * 300 MHz
What I find here is that we can safely either reduce the clock speed or reduce the number of APUs ( 9.6 GFLOPS would rate the PSP quite a bit above the PlayStation 2's EE )...
We could maybe have only a single APU...
That would mean 2.4 GFLOPS... this is more than what the Dreamcast SH-4 could do but since we might see the APU helping with Sound and maybe a bit of rendering ( even though I see bi-linear filtering built-in the Pixel Engine+Image Cache part )...
2.4 GFLOPS, 2.4 GOPS ( in this area, Integer performance, this chip obliterates the Emotion Engine... but we might need fast Integer Processing... ) and 300 MPixels/s ( we only need a Z-buffer, no need of using deferred rendering... we could do deferred T&L by transfroming the NURBS control points and tesselating only the portions of the NURBS that are visible )... this doesn't look too bad to me...
1 PU ( MIPS32 core ) + 1 APU ( with 128 KB of Local Storage and 4 FP Units, 4 Integer Units and 128 of 128 bits wide registers )+ e-DRAM ( ~2-8 MB, I do not see much more with 90 nm technology ) + 1 Pixel Engine + Image Cache ( separate from the e-DRAM ) + Display Controller...
PC-Engine said:
i could say the same thing,
the truth is out there whether u choose to believe it or not.
at least i can spell
j/kPanajev2001a
Veteran
Tagrineth said:Oh, by the way, people talking about storage: Nintendo already has a new ROM technology (which GBA actually can use) which supports unbelievable 256MB + sizes and isn't any more expensive than current mask ROM tech.
Not more expensive than current cartdridges.. not good enough... mass produced UMD will probably be cheaper...
Evil_Cloud
Veteran
What this platform needs is a Final Fantasy VII, VIII & IX port, link-up games (if Skies of Arcadia 2 where to come to PS2 -> downloadable Pinta quest via memory stick or something), The possibility to watch movie/MP3/photo backups. Also ports which retail for a relatively low price. 3rd party developers could make ports of old & new games...
And then there is no such thing as a GBA (SP) anymore...
And then there is no such thing as a GBA (SP) anymore...
Display technology is driving mobile apps, the past of isnt relevant ... you couldnt watch movies on a Game Gear (and even with better media the GBA wouldnt be too suited to it either).
Panajev, unless they are using MIPS in cell in the first place I doubt they would spend that much time fitting it to it ... it will probably just be a MIPS core with MIPS SIMD instruction set extension, or maybe a downclocked EE to make porting easier. EE is a 32 bit MIPS based chip after all (in non console f-boy bits.
Panajev, unless they are using MIPS in cell in the first place I doubt they would spend that much time fitting it to it ... it will probably just be a MIPS core with MIPS SIMD instruction set extension, or maybe a downclocked EE to make porting easier. EE is a 32 bit MIPS based chip after all (in non console f-boy bits
.Panajev2001a
Veteran
Uhm... they say it will play PSX games as well as new games designed for the PSP HW...
How will PSP play PlayStation software ?
Uhm... will it have an emulator ( Connectix, they bought them a while ago ) or will it be an enhanced PSX CPU with a newer FP Vector Unit ( NURBS talk ) and upgraded GPU ( bi-linear filtering and perspective corrected texture mapping )... ?
This unit does not read CDs ( UMDs are much smaller )...
How will PSP play PlayStation software ?
Uhm... will it have an emulator ( Connectix, they bought them a while ago ) or will it be an enhanced PSX CPU with a newer FP Vector Unit ( NURBS talk ) and upgraded GPU ( bi-linear filtering and perspective corrected texture mapping )... ?
This unit does not read CDs ( UMDs are much smaller )...
You're wrong, GB was in the brink of death. Pokemon was one final attempt. In fact the only reason Pokemon was even released was because Nintendo doesn't have anything else at the time. Pokemon was in the work by Game Freaks for quite some times before that situation. Even the creator admitted, he tought the game was going to be canned because GB was in the brink of death and he took so long to finish his game.
But Nintendo actually put alot of their egg in that Pokemon basket for one final attempt at saving GB. The good thing that happend was that there was a media company willing to backup Pokemon, with cartoon and comic, to promote it.
Pokemon wasn't an overnight success to begin with, it was modest, but it was modest for a very long time and it doesn't go away.
Nintendo owed Pokemon, more than any other of their franchised. Look at you, its hard for you to belive that at one point in its history, GB was in fact in the brink of death. You don't belive this, thanks to Pokemon
Panajev2001a
Veteran
Ok, but the important thing is that they have the emulation software
Mfa, maybe Cell was supposed to fit a MIPS processor in the PU... maybe it was designed to let the manufacturer support either MIPS or a cut down PPC... who knows...
About the EE... yes, maybe a cut-down EE+GS@90 nm is possible, but I'd consider the EE at least a 64-128 bits hybrid...
The data bus is 128 bits, the twin ALUs are true 64 bits ALUs ( IIRC ) and the GPRs are 128 bits...
If you have explanations why it is 32 bits other than the fact that the instruction set is 32 bits ( 32 bits instructions ), please go ahead... I would not classify the SH-4 as a 16 bits CPU though, nor the Alpha as being 32 bits ( IIRC it doesn't have 64 bits long instructions )...
Also MIPS 3D ASE is an extension of the MIPS64 architecture...
Mfa, maybe Cell was supposed to fit a MIPS processor in the PU... maybe it was designed to let the manufacturer support either MIPS or a cut down PPC... who knows...
About the EE... yes, maybe a cut-down EE+GS@90 nm is possible, but I'd consider the EE at least a 64-128 bits hybrid...
The data bus is 128 bits, the twin ALUs are true 64 bits ALUs ( IIRC ) and the GPRs are 128 bits...
If you have explanations why it is 32 bits other than the fact that the instruction set is 32 bits ( 32 bits instructions ), please go ahead... I would not classify the SH-4 as a 16 bits CPU though, nor the Alpha as being 32 bits ( IIRC it doesn't have 64 bits long instructions )...
Also MIPS 3D ASE is an extension of the MIPS64 architecture...
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