PSP: Playable on show floor, impressions inside.

[Phil]

JVD:

Right because having your own fab and running it doesn't cost anything right ? Not only that but the tech to make the fabs was free ?

No, but in Sony's case, the fab won't be used for one product alone, but with their CELL project potentially their entire consumer electronics. Sony dwarfs most companies outthere when it comes to raw product shipment across all their divisions. Ever looked up how many products Sony as a Coorporation sells a year? Obviously, Sony can afford to have their fabs running and obviously it is cheaper for them than to outsource. Is this so hard to comprehend that these fabs won't be used for one product alone? You keep acting as if this were the case. This is what we call long term investment. Obviously Nintendo can't afford to make their own fabs let alone it wouldn't even be worth it as the initial costs of making such a fab would outweigh their profits they could be making on each unit sold. Sony however is in a total different situation in which they can use their fabs for their entire devisions which sell million of products a year.

The reason why sony is selling it at 300$ or more is because of an expensive battery . Expensive lcd screen , umd feature , mp3 feature , wireless lan and all that fun stuff that is not needed on a game machine .

I could care less if i can watch movies on a video game system. I want to play video games. If i wanted to watch a movie i would buy a dvd player .

And I already told you, including mp3 or movie playback didn't significantly increase the costs of the PSP unit. Why would it? Did enabling DVD-Video playback significantly increase the cost of a PS2? No. The drive is there - all you need to make it to run mp3 or movie data is software which is already available within Sony or costs that can be considered minimal for a company that makes this kind of software and all sorts of movie-playback devices in other devisions.

The only point you are somewhat correct about is probably the expensive battery. Yet, I wonder, if Nintendo were to make a portable GameCube, do you think they could get away with cheap batteries? You're forgetting one thing here: Sony makes batteries. They have been doing so for years, using them for all sorts of things for laptops right up until handycams and digital cameras. Where would Nintendo get equally performing batteries? Other companies. And really, I have no reason to believe that a portable GCN would use less power than an optimized gadget such as the PSP with an expensive battery. UMD feature? I already told you - certainly not that much more expensive than if they were to use some other "mini" disc format. It's their propriatery format. They don't need to licence it from anyone. It's their technology. All things Nintendo would have to buy/licence through others if they were to use something equivilant.

Wireless lan / bluetooth? Doubt it was that expensive to include... afterall, this is something that can be found in just about any laptop or mobilephone. Also, something more that I'm sure Sony can do in-house - either way, I don't see this as significant cost factors in PSP. Sure they all add up, but I see the biggest cost being in battery, chipset, disc-drive and the lcd. Anything on top of that are mear add-ons.

If you still believe that mp3 and movie playback increased cost of the PSP significantly, please back this up with some proof or some thought through argument other than your personal belief. That would bring this discussion a whole bit further.

Why would they need such a large screen ? I find my gba screen just fine. Even my game gear screen was great for displaying tv on it .

LOL. Okay, what ever you say. If you think a portable GameCube with a native resolution of 240x160 pixels (15bit) is sufficiant and acceptable. Sure.

right and how do u get the mp3s from your pc to your psp ? Magic pixie dust ? No there is tech and programs which will let u do it.
which all cost money.

Ever heard of SonicStage? Sony is huge. They have made software like this for a couple of years now - what is stopping them recycling their current software that they use for minidisc/mp3/atrac players for PSP? Actually, I would be quite suprised if they wouldn't - afterall, the PSP is just a memorystick atrac/mp3 player with additional LCD, disc-drive, chipset for gaming etc. I don't see how the software necessary to get your music onto a PSP could be a significant cost factor (...that raised the price to its $299+). Explain?

right cause sony is special and reserch , development and manufacturing doesn't cost anything ?

Instead of making stupid comments like that, why don't you point out how UMD could be considered a significant cost compared to using a normal mini-cd medium while considering that UMD is their propriatery format (no licencing) and they actually have the fabs to make their own disc drives etc. Sure there are development and manufacturing costs, but they have the know-how thanks to other specialised devisions within Sony. Do you think they're going to invest in additional R&D and manufacturing that other devisions within Sony already have and that for years? Use your brain JVD.

Right because the first walkman was like the one on the market today sleak and hours of playtime off 1 double a . Hell no. They were huge huge things that drained batterys like no tommorow. Cd portables ? same things. They would use up insane power , skip like no tommorow and eventualy they brought out anti skip hardware that drained batterys even more till finally you can get 10 hours or so on one double a.

mini disc ? You mean the format that sony has tried to unsucessfuly launch in the usa twice now ?

Don't forget the first units of those. Poor sound quality and low battery life .

I brought up mini-disc (MD) because I actually own one and that since the very first generation and actually noticed the steady increase in battery saving techniques that have been developed since then. It was a mear example of their efforts. This can be easily seen by looking at their walkmans/discmans too. Sony still has a huge edge, even compared to other companies in regards to battery length in portable devices. Look at their portable cd-players or mini-disc players. The point I was illustrating is that Sony has worked on portables for years and optimized power over the years to quite an impressive state. I am saying that all this know-how is surely present in PSP. They have the know-how. Your attempts in turning this into how poor sound quality first MiniDiscs players had or their successfullness in the US won't give you any credibility whatsoever nor does it explain where Nintendo will get equal technology in this area at the same price for its "portable GameCube". Nice try in evading the arguments though.

I haven't seen nintendo hold back anyone.

Yeah sure. On a technlogy side, sure they have. After years of GameBoy, they finally brought a smaller sized one out. Then years later, finally a one with a colour screen. Then again years after that, the Advance that finally rivals the 10+ year old SNES. Now that PSP is coming out, the best they can dish out is something with roughly N64 graphics and a second screen. Note I am not putting down their innovation they are bringing in (which does deserve respect), but in regards to technology, they could be a lot further. Oh wait, maybe not - maybe they just couldn't make anything better in lack of resources and high prices.... and yet, inspite this possibility, you are claiming Nintendo could make a portable GameCube at $250? This is classic.

Sure, if it's soooo easy, why haven't they? Why are they bringing out a DS with roughly N64 graphics? It's so easy to bring out a portable GameCube and especially, it's even cheaper to make than a PSP! Oh the irony!!! So what is it? Are they holding back technology or are is it really that farfetched to believe that a portable GameCube at the price you are suggesting is not possible?

Make up your mind.

Just like if there was only ps2 and no ms or nintendo we will still have only ps2 and we would not be talking about ps3 .

No one is claiming Sony would be any different. A company either pushes technology or they don't. In Nintendo's case, they either couldn't and did the best they could (which would negate any claim on a portable GameCube), or they could have but clearly didn't because of their monopoly position and DID hold back technology.

So while having your own fabs can save you money its not allways a sure thing and even in the end the savings will not be as huge as you'd like everyone to think

Sure, no one ever claimed that a fab offers nothing but advantages. Fabs need to be build, fabs need to be maintained, fabs need to have people controlling them, fabs break down, fabs need to be upgraded, fixed. The list goes on and on. Obviously, the more raw numbers a company sells, the more likely having your own fab will bring you in a great advantage since you won't be paying per chip and because you have a much higher rate, you reach your break-even-point much earlier. In Sony's case, as I already mentioned, they have an entire consumer electronic devisions that will potentially benefit from these fabs. Not one product (PSP), not two products (PS3, PSP). Of course, CELL needs to be a success and the fabs need to be good, but the main point is, for a company like Sony with millions of products across their entire coorporation, it's obviously worth it and at the same time gives them a great advantage since they can cut costs on a per chip basis and therefore control their entire process. PSP is a mostly in-house development so the costs needed on outsourcing can be saved while a company such as Nintendo pays for everysingle outsourced part and thus adds to the total price.

Therei s good and bad in everything . I know u like to only see the good in what sony does. But its just not like that .

Actually you are the only one here with a bias. I have tryed to illustrate the good and bad of each approach. It is undoubtedly clear that a company that can control their entire process has a great advantage under ideal circumstances. At the moment, everything suggest that these circumstances are very ideal as confirmed by various reports that everything seems to be on track. I don't know why you are trying to make up things to show how Sony can fail. Of course they can, as any company can. It's about the potential and your argument that Nintendo could just make a GameCube portable for under $250 is neither realistic nor do I have any reason to "believe" it could come reality any time soon. The facts seem to point in that direction too... heck, did you even notice that most people in this very thread find a portable GameCube at the price you're suggesting to be unrealistic? Wonder why? Pay good attention to the arguments they have brought up - ones that I didn't even touch on.

How so ? how much does it cost to add the umd to the psp ? How much would it cost to add another format to the gc ?

Sony develops these drives in-house. They make discmans, portable dvd players, mini-discs.. the list goes on and on. Does NIntendo make portables such as these? Where do they get these drives? The point is the price Nintendo could get this is at least higher than what Sony can get these from. Capice?

RIght nintendo has about 6 billion in the bank too.

No one said they don't. However they don't have the assets Sony does. Sony might not have that much of cash available in the bank, but they have fabs and thousands of employess across the world in multiple devisions that they have gathered know-how over the past years and help them reduce the price of their in-house products.

This has been discuessed here before . I feel very strongly that it can be done.

Then keep on dreaming. I rather use logic and facts to see if something is feasable or not. "Believing" won't get you very far when you're on top of a multi billion cooporation. "Believing" won't make a portable GameCube magically appear out of the ground. They don't grow on trees with a money box sitting there either.

 

[a688]

blah, blah, blah

Wow, you had way too much time on your hands to make a long response that bad. You must really love sony giving them that much credit. They are only a company. I don't have as much time to type out a response as you do but I'll point out that you don't seem to see the cost involved in developing technologies, or implementing them into new products. Also, including DVD playback DOES increse the cost of the PS2. If you both to research ANYTHING you'd realize that there is a DVD forum that you MUST PAY ROYALTIES to if you want to be to able to LEGALLY play DVD movies (not as in DVD drives, but the software to decode it. this software is NOT free).

 

[rabidrabbit]

What's that stylus doing in that pic??
Is it needed for the plastic transparent keyboard thing (why is it on top of the screen??) or is PSP's screen touch sensitive?

And here's a different looking plastic transparent 'control panel'

Are these 'plastic transparent control panels' supposed to fold and fit on the screen as an overlay, at the same time acting as a screen protector, while at the same time allowing typing on the screen without obstructing the view too much??????

 

[London Geezer]

Gosh... That thing looks sexier everytime i look at it. And those transparent thingies are even sexier... Shame on me, i should have saved money this year!!!

 

[Phil]

a688:

Wow, you had way too much time on your hands to make a long response that bad. You must really love sony giving them that much credit. They are only a company. I don't have as much time to type out a response as you do but I'll point out that you don't seem to see the cost involved in developing technologies, or implementing them into new products. Also, including DVD playback DOES increse the cost of the PS2. If you both to research ANYTHING you'd realize that there is a DVD forum that you MUST PAY ROYALTIES to if you want to be to able to LEGALLY play DVD movies (not as in DVD drives, but the software to decode it. this software is NOT free).

With all due respect, but bias or love for a company has little relevance in the above discussion. If you had followed the debate, it wasn't about showing "how great Sony is" - it was about a poster that believes a portable GameCube at $250 or less to be feasable for Nintendo. Never have I argued that developing technologies or implementing those doesn't cost money - that is a given. The argument is that lots of resources/technolgies used in PSP are most likely already available within Sony thanks to their other devisions which have been specialised in the field of portable devices for years. While it doesn't eliminate those costs, it of course decreases them, since it is recycled and doesn't need extra research from scratch.

And I am aware that DVD-Video playback does cost royalities. I was talking about significant cost factors, like for example hardware upgrades (which obviously weren't necessary given that the medium of PS2 software are DVDs). Anyway, not that it is relevant, as PSP doesn't use DVD and has no DVD-Video playback but instead has Sony's own priopriatary format. Unless you want to argue that royality fees for a DVD-Forum member are that significant...?

 

[ChryZ]

BTW, the USB plug is at the point where those input-thingies are

 

[London Geezer]

BTW, the USB plug is at the point where those input-thingies are

Isnt that where u stick the UMD into?

 

[ChryZ]

BTW, the USB plug is at the point where those input-thingies are

Isnt that where u stick the UMD into?

Nah, check this out:

The left slider is for the UMD back-loader-door, USB in the middle, IR/IRDA (?) on the right ... I guess

 

[Ty]

MBX is intended for SOCs - it doesn't live on its own. It'd be integrated onto the same die as the CPU.

Thanks for the info but I was only following the original poster who mentioned, "add an Arm".

 

[jvd]

No, but in Sony's case, the fab won't be used for one product alone, but with their CELL project potentially their entire consumer electronics. Sony dwarfs most companies outthere when it comes to raw product shipment across all their divisions. Ever looked up how many products Sony as a Coorporation sells a year? Obviously, Sony can afford to have their fabs running and obviously it is cheaper for them than to outsource. Is this so hard to comprehend that these fabs won't be used for one product alone? You keep acting as if this were the case. This is what we call long term investment. Obviously Nintendo can't afford to make their own fabs let alone it wouldn't even be worth it as the initial costs of making such a fab would outweigh their profits they could be making on each unit sold. Sony however is in a total different situation in which they can use their fabs for their entire devisions which sell million of products a year

Right and it still costs money to operate .

Nintendo just pays for the chips .

While there will be savings for sony it is not as big as some of you claim .

And I already told you, including mp3 or movie playback didn't significantly increase the costs of the PSP unit. Why would it? Did enabling DVD-Video playback significantly increase the cost of a PS2? No. The drive is there - all you need to make it to run mp3 or movie data is software which is already available within Sony or costs that can be considered minimal for a company that makes this kind of software and all sorts of movie-playback devices in other devisions

yet it all costs money and nothing is free .

minimal is not free so don't make it out to be that way. If it was free then al lcompanys would be doing it would they not ? IF it was free to let the ipod play movies it would. If it was free to let my watch play movies then it would . Though my watch can change channels .

The only point you are somewhat correct about is probably the expensive battery. Yet, I wonder, if Nintendo were to make a portable GameCube, do you think they could get away with cheap batteries? You're forgetting one thing here: Sony makes batteries. They have been doing so for years, using them for all sorts of things for laptops right up until handycams and digital cameras. Where would Nintendo get equally performing batteries? Other companies. And really, I have no reason to believe that a portable GCN would use less power than an optimized gadget such as the PSP with an expensive battery. UMD feature? I already told you - certainly not that much more expensive than if they were to use some other "mini" disc format. It's their propriatery format. They don't need to licence it from anyone. It's their technology. All things Nintendo would have to buy/licence through others if they were to use something equivilant.

I am not aware that sony makes thier own laptop batterys .If they do thats more power to them. But your telling me that the psp has a laptop battery in it ? THat must be one damn heavy battery .

Also i never said it would use less power. I said it would use less power than the psp while the psp played movies and most likely less power when playing games because i don't think nintendo would use such a high res screen nor should they .

Wireless lan / bluetooth? Doubt it was that expensive to include... afterall, this is something that can be found in just about any laptop or mobilephone. Also, something more that I'm sure Sony can do in-house - either way, I don't see this as significant cost factors in PSP. Sure they all add up, but I see the biggest cost being in battery, chipset, disc-drive and the lcd. Anything on top of that are mear add-ons.

Right its in there because it was included in the motherboard design as a feature. Of course it put money in there .

That is why I don't have blue tooth built into my motherboard . Because it cost money . How expensive I don't know. But even a 1$ per unit adds a ton of costs to a machine .

If you still believe that mp3 and movie playback increased cost of the PSP significantly, please back this up with some proof or some thought through argument other than your personal belief. That would bring this discussion a whole bit further.

Sorry sony didn't give me thier r&d and production costs .

But can u give me proof that it didn't inceas the cost significantly other than you saying i don't think it would cost much is minimal ?

LOL. Okay, what ever you say. If you think a portable GameCube with a native resolution of 240x160 pixels (15bit) is sufficiant and acceptable. Sure.

It depends doesn't it . how much fsaa there will be. Have you ever watched tv on a gamegear? I can go to my closet and pull it out right now and it looks good . As good as using an antena to get singals can look .No its not hdtv quality but its easily portable tv quality.

Ever heard of SonicStage? Sony is huge. They have made software like this for a couple of years now - what is stopping them recycling their current software that they use for minidisc/mp3/atrac players for PSP? Actually, I would be quite suprised if they wouldn't - afterall, the PSP is just a memorystick atrac/mp3 player with additional LCD, disc-drive, chipset for gaming etc. I don't see how the software necessary to get your music onto a PSP could be a significant cost factor (...that raised the price to its $299+). Explain?

FIrst off stop being an ass. No one thing raised the price to 299$. They are all factors that played a part in the price being raised.

Yes mabye sony is using sonicstage. mabye they aren't After all using the ps2 chisp would save a ton of money on the psp yet they didn't use it . Perhaps they felt the sonicestage software was to demanding on the software or mabye even the umd or ram write speeds . Perhaps it took up to much ram while running .

There are a whole ton of reasons .

Instead of making stupid comments like that, why don't you point out how UMD could be considered a significant cost compared to using a normal mini-cd medium while considering that UMD is their propriatery format (no licencing) and they actually have the fabs to make their own disc drives etc. Sure there are development and manufacturing costs, but they have the know-how thanks to other specialised devisions within Sony. Do you think they're going to invest in additional R&D and manufacturing that other devisions within Sony already have and that for years? Use your brain JVD.

Why don't u use your brain .

I never siad they would invest in anything additional thats your asshole comments added to mine.

Umd still cost sony money. It doesn't matter what devision it was in. IT also still costs money to make , put in the psp and to design it to work in the psp and other things that may have been done to the format .

Once again you say oh well this part of sony did something so no way it can add to the cost. Your wrong . Because if you were right sony could be giving these thigns away for free. After all nothing in the psp costs sony money .

brought up mini-disc (MD) because I actually own one and that since the very first generation and actually noticed the steady increase in battery saving techniques that have been developed since then. It was a mear example of their efforts. This can be easily seen by looking at their walkmans/discmans too. Sony still has a huge edge, even compared to other companies in regards to battery length in portable devices. Look at their portable cd-players or mini-disc players. The point I was illustrating is that Sony has worked on portables for years and optimized power over the years to quite an impressive state. I am saying that all this know-how is surely present in PSP. They have the know-how. Your attempts in turning this into how poor sound quality first MiniDiscs players had or their successfullness in the US won't give you any credibility whatsoever nor does it explain where Nintendo will get equal technology in this area at the same price for its "portable GameCube". Nice try in evading the arguments though.

Right so in six years when the battery life finally comes up then give me a call and tell me . Because ti doesn't matter if they fix battery life in 3 or 4 years . The system is going to launch way before that.

Nintendo also has the know how to do things. They have been making portable gaming devices for a very long time . They know battery saving techs too. Not only that but i'm sure they have deals with companys for the latest tech in battery design. The gba sp battery is a tiny thing and it gets me 10-12 hours of play time on the gba with the screen lit and its what 2 or 3 years old now.

Yeah sure. On a technlogy side, sure they have. After years of GameBoy, they finally brought a smaller sized one out. Then years later, finally a one with a colour screen. Then again years after that, the Advance that finally rivals the 10+ year old SNES. Now that PSP is coming out, the best they can dish out is something with roughly N64 graphics and a second screen. Note I am not putting down their innovation they are bringing in (which does deserve respect), but in regards to technology, they could be a lot further. Oh wait, maybe not - maybe they just couldn't make anything better in lack of resources and high prices.... and yet, inspite this possibility, you are claiming Nintendo could make a portable GameCube at $250? This is classic.

Wow way not to read anything.



As i said before nintendo made a gameboy. IT sold well. Other companys advanced the tech and they failed. nintendo kept making the same system and the consumers bought it regardless of other companys pushing the industry foward. It was not nintendo holding it back. It was the consumers .


IT be like if people kept buying a ps2 while the xbox 2 and gc 2 are out and sony doesn't put a ps3 out.

Who is holding back the industry. If consumers don't want to buy the new tech then it doesn't matter what nintendo puts out or doens't put out .

ITs the same with sony. Sony can put out a mini disc player. But if the consumers want cds still then hey what are you going to do keep throwing r&d out the window ?

Sure, if it's soooo easy, why haven't they? Why are they bringing out a DS with roughly N64 graphics? It's so easy to bring out a portable GameCube and especially, it's even cheaper to make than a PSP! Oh the irony!!! So what is it? Are they holding back technology or are is it really that farfetched to believe that a portable GameCube at the price you are suggesting is not possible?

Simple , ds is extremely cheap. Not only is it cheap but its ideal for those under 12 . My gba sp i can drop and my cousin has dropped own stairs and done worse to and it still works. Do you think the psp can live up to that ? Not only that but why would it. The design lends it self to a 18+ age group where as the gameboy clearly targets a much younger age group. The same will go with the ds . So all those who have gbas and a huge library can upgrade to a ds .

While nintendo readys the gb 2 . Nintendo has siad the ds is thier third pillar .

I don't see why you think they mean anything less than ds , gb2 , gamecube 2.

No one is claiming Sony would be any different. A company either pushes technology or they don't. In Nintendo's case, they either couldn't and did the best they could (which would negate any claim on a portable GameCube), or they could have but clearly didn't because of their monopoly position and DID hold back technology.

Or as i have said before they watched other companys try and fail and figured the risk wasn't worth it esp not on a well selling system. Couple that with thier target base and the picture is much more clear .

Sure, no one ever claimed that a fab offers nothing but advantages. Fabs need to be build, fabs need to be maintained, fabs need to have people controlling them, fabs break down, fabs need to be upgraded, fixed. The list goes on and on. Obviously, the more raw numbers a company sells, the more likely having your own fab will bring you in a great advantage since you won't be paying per chip and because you have a much higher rate, you reach your break-even-point much earlier. In Sony's case, as I already mentioned, they have an entire consumer electronic devisions that will potentially benefit from these fabs. Not one product (PSP), not two products (PS3, PSP). Of course, CELL needs to be a success and the fabs need to be good, but the main point is, for a company like Sony with millions of products across their entire coorporation, it's obviously worth it and at the same time gives them a great advantage since they can cut costs on a per chip basis and therefore control their entire process. PSP is a mostly in-house development so the costs needed on outsourcing can be saved while a company such as Nintendo pays for everysingle outsourced part and thus adds to the total price.

It can lead to it being cheaper and I never said it can't be cheaper than outsourcing.

But it doesn't matter how many other products they fab there. It matters what the psp yield rates are like that dictate the price of those chips .

Not only that but if they use the cutting edge fabs that they are building right now for the psp and ps3 then its up to those two products to recoup costs as they will be made there for the next 4 or 5 years and most likely nothing else will be made there.

I mean really some stuff just wont be worth putting at 90nm and 65 nm .

Actually you are the only one here with a bias. I have tryed to illustrate the good and bad of each approach. It is undoubtedly clear that a company that can control their entire process has a great advantage under ideal circumstances. At the moment, everything suggest that these circumstances are very ideal as confirmed by various reports that everything seems to be on track. I don't know why you are trying to make up things to show how Sony can fail. Of course they can, as any company can. It's about the potential and your argument that Nintendo could just make a GameCube portable for under $250 is neither realistic nor do I have any reason to "believe" it could come reality any time soon. The facts seem to point in that direction too... heck, did you even notice that most people in this very thread find a portable GameCube at the price you're suggesting to be unrealistic? Wonder why? Pay good attention to the arguments they have brought up - ones that I didn't even touch on.

Haha . Yes i'm the only one bias here. I guess you don't own a mirror . Or you don't read your own posts .

IF i ever say. Sony doesn't do this well , someone can do this better than sony what do i get a post by you telling me how wrong I am and how great sony is . Its like clockwork.

Its very sad because your a smart guy. But i see it more and more and many others have started to agree with me who didn't before .

I try to post on the console talk forum less and less and mod more and more because I know unless I love sony I will have to put up with baseless attacks from you and other sony zelots .

I have provided many reasons why the gc tech can be done at cheaper than the psp.

All i have gotten from u is well sony is great. IT doesn't matter what happens every choice they make is the smartest thing ever.

Owning fabs can only mean having cheaper chips (sure tell that to amd who is now going to start to out source amd athlon xp production)

You don't even give a thought to yields . You also don't even dare bring up other problems that sony would have to eat or roll into the cost of the psp to cover where as by going to an outside fab they would have to eat the cost .

Hey can you send me a pair or those rose color glasses you have on. I would like them for when I read about sega.

Then keep on dreaming. I rather use logic and facts to see if something is feasable or not. "Believing" won't get you very far when you're on top of a multi billion cooporation. "Believing" won't make a portable GameCube magically appear out of the ground. They don't grow on trees with a money box sitting there either.

Rigfht the facts according to phil . 1) sony is the best on one ever can do something they can not do

2 ) repeat above



When nintendo announces thier portable i will be sure to bring this thread up .

 

[Ty]

If it was free to let my watch play movies then it would . Though my watch can change channels .

Lol. You are a nut. That last line seriously cracked me up.

 

[Fox5]

I sitll say a cube portable could be made for 100$

Show me a 90nm 750 core integrated onto Flipper running under 1W and your claim *might* have an ounce of credibility...

I still haven't seen you give a good answer .And no "sony couldn' tmake the ps2 portable " does not work.

Unless you can show me a portable that plays PS2 titles as is, movies, PSOne titles, room for an HDD (since you're insisting on a "PS2 portable") it does work...

a 750 core on 90nm running at the flipper speeds may run that low. Esp with tweaking and other ehancements to the core.

And no just because sony can't do it doesn't mean others can't

SOny couldn't push beta . But vhs went through. Sony coulnd't push mini discs but mp3 players sold in mass .

Sony fails alot. Just because sony can't do it doesn't mean nintendo can't do something.

Too bad you'll never see it from Nintendo. Remember, _____ does what Nintendon't.

 

[Phil]

jvd:

Alright JVD, you can call me an ass or whatever, but I stopped reading somewhere in the upper half of your reply and sadly I had to admit that your multiple attempts of putting words into my mouth, your utter blindness and ignorance are simply not worth my time any longer. I have wasted my time in trying to accomplish something, which obviously failed as you seem to be unable to comprehend what I wrote, nor the basics on which a mutli billion company operates in order to succeed and to make money. Your arguments are weak, flawed and have little, if any, relevance to the arguments I brought up, like for example the sad attempt of showing how a movie-playback adds to the cost and is why iPods don't have such a function (simply because it lacks the necessary compontens like a good LCD, of course ignoring that the PSP already has all the required components because of its primary function that is portable gaming).

Anyway, with the DualScreen, Nintendo's latest handheld device with roughly N64 graphics to be launched within the same timeframe as PSP at a price of $200, JVD still "believes" that a portable GameCube is feasable at under $250. Heck, accoarding to JVD back on page 4, he even goes onto say "I sitll say a cube portable could be made for 100$"! I appologise for questioning such a "belief" and this I suppose proves my bias and my limitless love for Sony and their upcoming PSP product. Sony is of course stupid for not outsourcing their chips, as jvd so wisely points out in his example that AMD will be outsourcing as well and Nintendo obviously can get cheaper more capable chips by buying them on a per chip basis through other companies along with the disk-drive, the lcd and the battery. At all times I sadly ignored the many reasons jvd provided as to why gc tech is cheaper than PSP - it was a mistake to even question that it would be possible and Nintendo selling the DS at double the price of a portable GCN is just due to overpricing.

Accoarding to this wise man JVD, a portable GameCube at that price would need nothing more but the old recycled 240x160 GBA screens as they are sufficient with enough FSAA to let the graphics, with those millions of polygons and bumpmapping that the GameCube is capable of, shine in its glory. Silly me. It all makes sense now. Appologies jvd. I see now how a portable GCN for 100$ is possible.

...

*buys a GCN for $99 and sticks his old GBA screen onto it*

Woot! My new portable GameCube!!!

 

[thop]

"So if you are saying 'Day one, are you going to be profitable on the hardware?' then probably not," Hirai said. "Hopefully, this will have a 10-year lifecycle, at which point I will look back and say 'Yes, definitely profitable'.â€￾

10 year lifecycle? :? I think Kaz might be just a bit too optimistic here

 

[jvd]

And u've been proven wrong again and again about DC and DOT3 and S3TC, filtering, and whatever else people think DC is superior to everything in the universe... Proven wrong not by me or by the common guys around here. By developers who actually have worked on both platforms.

DOT3 is nowhere to be seen on PS2 games? Show it to me in DC games. Oh i forgot. A bottle in Shenmue. ONE SINGLE BOTTLE in Shenmue.... :|

So what? Do DC games look any worse because they don't have DOT3? No! Do PS2 games look any worse in some people's eyes because it uses some wacky texture compression instead of the commonly used S3TC or DC's VQ?!

Do we have to have the same 4 year old discussion again every 6 months or so...?

Your also comparing a console that had a year or a year and a half dev life to a console that has had 5 years dev life with devs fighting to squeeze everything out of the system.

Ps 2 games that actually looked better than dreamcast games didn't come out till about 3 years into the ps2s life.

 

[jvd]

not all companys sell systems at a loss . Sony may do that. But nintendo likes to break even or make a profit .

Just becasue the ds costs 200$ for you to buy doesn't mean it cost nintendo that to make.

Just like my volvo didn't cost volvo 50grand to make yet that was the sticker price.

Can you understand that ?

 

[Teasy]

Gosh... That thing looks sexier everytime i look at it. And those transparent thingies are even sexier

They're bits of see through plastic, that's it, how can you find that sexy? If anything it looks silly. Really, I think Mr Kutaragi could puke into a bottle and you'd think it was art

 

[Panajev2001a]

"So if you are saying 'Day one, are you going to be profitable on the hardware?' then probably not," Hirai said. "Hopefully, this will have a 10-year lifecycle, at which point I will look back and say 'Yes, definitely profitable'.â€￾

10 year lifecycle? :? I think Kaz might be just a bit too optimistic here

Life-cycle does not mean "until the PSP2 is out", not for Sony at least and not really for most players: people tend to believe that when a successor is released the old console has to stop production and die.

That did not happen with the PSOne and from the comments coming from most developers, new PlayStation 2 games will be made for quite sometimes, even after PlayStation 3 launches.

Under this light I can see what he mans by 10 years life-cycle.

 

[GHost]

Gosh... That thing looks sexier everytime i look at it. And those transparent thingies are even sexier

They're bits of see through plastic, that's it, how can you find that sexy? If anything it looks silly. Really, I think Mr Kutaragi could puke into a bottle and you'd think it was art

Have to agree those input thingies are nothing but silly. If only for the fact that they're unusable - how am I supposed to actually see the screen while writing? Through my hand?



Edit: poor english

 

[Ty]

10 year lifecycle? :? I think Kaz might be just a bit too optimistic here

Have you looked at how the PS1 is still doing?

They're bits of see through plastic, that's it, how can you find that sexy? If anything it looks silly.

Hmm, maybe it's just me continuing with my love for the PSP's looks but I have to agree that the see-thru input pads look kick azz as well. It continues with the sleek clean appearance by visually not taking up another chunk of space. To me it's akin to Glass dining tables, which I also prefer because of the clean contemporary lines.

Ghost brings up a good point about useability, however, so it'll be interesting to see them in action.

I have a feeling that when the DS gets a makeover you're going to go ga-ga over it no matter how little the change (and I'm personally assuming it will look better because it looks REALLY REALLY fugly now). The DS is a throwback to bad Tiger handhelds. I mean, I know looks are somewhat subjective but I just don't see how anyone in their right mind can think the DS looks better than the PSP.