PS5 Pro *spawn

[davis.anthony]

Doesn't really bode well for PS6 does it really?

If this thing easily sells out it'll half show them that a $700 PS6 will sell.

Also from a performance point of view, in 4 years time the base PS5 will be 8 years old and will replaced by PS6.

But it took Sony 4 years to offer 45% more performance, so in 4 years is PS6 going to be 45% faster than PS5 Pro?

 

[Lurkmass]

You are smart enough to know that a 2x to 3x RT improvements and 45% Raster improvements will never yield 3x overall improvements, rendering is not limited by RT alone.

Which is why I get the impression that they're actually overinflating their stated gains with their new upscaler ...

You are smart enough to know that a 2x to 3x RT improvements and 45% Raster improvements will never yield 3x overall improvements, rendering is not limited by RT alone.


In other words you refuse to admit you were wrong, and continue to not believe in the evidence even when it's right in your face.

I guess Sony is lying is an easier explanation.

Well until you or the others can prove that these improvements amounts to something *truly special* (i.e. higher performance factors in demonstrated real RT games wo/ upscaling or HW accelerated AI upscaler), I'm going to remain unimpressed as is ...

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Well I certainly fucked up my prediction that $599 would be a ceiling! $699 for digital only is an ask...for sure. 2TB is nice though.

Early on before the specs were revealed I was arguing that it would still make 'sense' for Sony if the process costs were high to just settle for a boutique class like many product ranges, even something that sells half as much as the PS4 Pro could still make financial sense for Sony, especially if it's engineered where it's abilities can be taken advantage of by developers with minimal effort.

But that was also assuming a more substantial upgrade. Now we haven't seen the impact of the upscaling or RT enhancements, upscaling quality may be one bullet in a feature list but it can be supremely important in delivering a equivalent/superior image so who knows, have to still see - games current quality modes now being performance, especially if that includes RT is a pretty big jump. Still...$1000 CAD (!!) though for what amounts to a middling GPU upgrade only though...jeebus.

 

[Liandry]

IMO PS4 Pro was better upgrade, and Xbox One X even better, a lot better to be honest. And PS4 Pro was released 3 years later, not 4. 4 was Xbox One X and had 5x performance, 50 % more RAM and a lot more RAM bandwidth. And also price for those upgrades were better. I skip, at least for year. Because here in Europe I should sell my PS5, put at least €500 on top and will get what. Console with +45% more performancea, without disc drive, and without exclusive games made for PS5 Pro at launch. To be honest, I think games what will show PS5 Pro real capabilities will be released at the end of next year.

 

[Lurkmass]

Doubling the framerate of the Insomiac games at near native 4K (or perceptible thanks to PSSR) is more than most people were expecting. Not one (big) game got its framerate doubled on PS4 Pro and certainly not the big open-world games.

I think those numbers are well with in the mostly expected parameters of what you would get with employing a theoretically bigger AMD HW design today which is a far cry from the rumors ...

 

[DavidGraham]

Which is why I get the impression that they're actually overinflating their stated gains with their new upscaler ...

If they are using a generic DP4a like upscaler then they wouldn't be able to achieve any of these results, since that upscaler will be slower or as fast as FSR (like XeSS). Overinflation strongly implies a hardware accelerated upscaler. So make up your mind, which upscaler is it?

Well until you or the others can prove that these improvements amounts to something *truly special* (i.e. higher performance factors in demonstrated real games wo/ upscaling or HW accelerated AI upscaler),

In several cases Sony managed to increase the number of ray traced effects in the PS5 Pro enhanced games while also doubling fps.

I'm going to remain unimpressed as is ...

Whether you remain unimpressed or not is not the purpose of the discussion, the discussion is about the direction Sony chose for their consoles. It's a PC like direction instead of an exotic out of the norm direction.

 

[pjbliverpool]

They didn’t give ant details. This is fucking crazy.

If it's using RDNA4 RT then perhaps Sony aren't at liberty to reveal the details of how RT has been improved until RDNA4 itself is announced.

 

[MCharta]

With how Marc Cerny, usually overpromising/overseling tech and speed of adoption of it, has sold RT here the only thing this annoncement has done is lowering my expectation from rdna4

 

[Globalisateur]

I think those numbers are well with in the mostly expected parameters of what you would get with employing a theoretically bigger AMD HW design today which is a far cry from the rumors ...

With 67% more compute (and 28% more bandwidth) you would double the framerate on RT heavy games on a AMD card currently? I doubt you could even do that with 100% more compute.

 

[Lurkmass]

If they are using a generic DP4a like upscaler then they wouldn't be able to achieve any of these results, since that upscaler will be slower or as fast as FSR. Overinflation strongly implies a hardware accelerated upscaler. So make up your mind, which upscaler is it?

Did you somehow forget that they have a bigger GPU to compensate for the overhead of PSSR even with a potential software implementation ? This isn't PS5 we're talking about here, it's the PS5 Pro!

Brute forcing is more of an option than you give it credit for ...

In several cases Sony managed to increase the number of ray traced effects in the PS5 Pro enhanced games while also doubling fps, whether you remain unimpressed or not is not the purpose of the discussion, the discussion is about the direction Sony chose for their consoles. It's a PC like direction instead of an exotic out of the norm direction.

This "PC like direction" is already proving to be economically unsustainable if the pricing is any indication ...

 

[chris1515]

If it's using RDNA4 RT then perhaps Sony aren't at liberty to reveal the details of how RT has been improved until RDNA4 itself is announced.

It seems this is the case:

PS5 Pro uses the new advanced [ray tracing] feature sets that AMD created as the next step in their roadmap architecture," Cerny told me. "But if you look around, there are no other AMD GPUs that use it yet. We motivated the development, and I'm very happy we did so -- the response from the developers has been extraordinarily great."

 

[Lurkmass]

With 67% more compute (and 28% more bandwidth) you would double the framerate on RT heavy games on a AMD card currently? I doubt you could even do that with 100% more compute.

Not alone no but you could certainly get there in combination with a software upscaler a la XeSS DP4a ...

 

[Riddlewire]

I like the addon disc drive concept.
It's what Series S should have been at launch.

 

[DavidGraham]

Did you somehow forget that they have a bigger GPU to compensate for the overhead of PSSR even with a potential software implementation ?

No, being a bigger GPU has little effect on the overhead of upscalers. It wouldn't result in any of these significant gains.

This "PC like direction" is already proving to be economically unsustainable if the pricing is any indication ...

All hardware are becoming expensive, people need to get used to that. The exotic route will be even more expensive both from the hardware aspect and from the developer aspect.

Cerny is saying that developers are loving the current direction.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

btw one interesting factoid from Mark Cerny's presentation is that around 75% of PS5 gamers are choosing performance mode. I always appreciate options and I don't want to see 30/40fps Fidelity modes go away mind you, but over the years I've seen numerous arguments that your typical gamer doesn't care about performance, they're fine with 30fps - it's only us technical dweebs who think this matters.

Well, it matters quite a bit to the general public it seems. They may not be joining in the #shaderstruggle anytime soon, but it seems even your more casual gamer can at least recognize the benefit of a high frame rate.

 

[RDGoodla]

They saw a near doubling (which falls well below the rumored 3/4x factor) of performance in R&C Rift Apart in fidelity mode so there's definitely no ruling out how much of a potential factor the gains with upscaling are especially if they're feeding it with a high enough resolution source data ...

It is probably because r&c has heavy RT workloads. So overall performance is near 2x?

 

[Lurkmass]

No, being a bigger GPU has little effect on the overhead of upscalers. It wouldn't result in any of these significant gains.

That doesn't really matter if the so called "fidelity mode @ 60hz w/ PSSR" is actually running at a internal lower resolution on the upgraded SKU in comparison to the "fidelity mode" on the original HW ...

There's more than enough headroom (lower rendering res/more compute resources w/ maybe even VOPD too ?) to reasonably implement a software upscaler at that point ...

All hardware are becoming expensive, people need to get used to that. The exotic route will be even more expensive both from the hardware aspect and from the developer aspect.

Cerny is saying that developers are loving the current direction.

Well I guess the raison d'etre for game consoles is effectively coming to an end if developers won't embrace custom programming with custom hardware ...

 

[Lurkmass]

It is probably because r&c has heavy RT workloads. So overall performance is near 2x?

Which makes you really wonder how these ~3/4x RT perf rumors originally came to be in the first place and if this is the best that they could achieve for R&C (potentially w/ upscling too!) then just how much of an improvement was the hardware actually from a 'design' point of view as opposed to just using a bigger GPU ?

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Well I guess the raison d'etre for game consoles is effectively coming to an end if developers won't embrace custom programming with custom hardware ...

The raison de'tre of game consoles is gaming delivered as easily as possible at an affordable price. A unified hardware standard and performant API's are a large part of that.

 

[Lurkmass]

The raison de'tre of game consoles is gaming delivered as easily as possible at an affordable price. A unified hardware standard and performant API's are a large part of that.

@Bold And how well do you think that will play with a low entry price barrier model in the future when PC HW costs are going out of control ?