PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

[Deleted member 11852]

Well I always enjoyed the long cycle without upgrades.
I kinda see a failure if the whole console model with PSNeo.
Maybe rightful and inevitable but still a failure?

Failure by what success criteria? It'll be years before it'll be evident if PS4 Neo was a commercial success for Sony, i.e that its boosting revenue. And for Sony, this is what matters. If they lose some people in the process that's an acceptable trade. Users are a means to profit, users are not in itself the goal.

 

[London Geezer]

Idea:

If Sony are releasing the Kaio Ken ps4 with new shrink process, what's stopping them from also releasing a vanilla PS4 on the same process but much smaller and quieter?

 

[AlNom]

Chi chi.

 

[onQ]

Well I always enjoyed the long cycle without upgrades.
I kinda see a failure if the whole console model with PSNeo.
Maybe rightful and inevitable but still a failure.

But if PS4 hit 50 million around the time that PS4.5 comes out where is the failure?

If PS4.5 prolongs the software support for PS4 & give devs a large user base to continue making games for & give them the freedom to push better visuals where is the fail?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I understand the arguments for a slim version of the PS4. But I think if Sony are going through the trouble of introducing a newer model they want it to succeed every way possible. If there is to be cannibalizing of future PS4 sales Sony will want consumers to choose new version over older version.

For that reason I believe there will be no slim redesign of PS4.

Mobiles (the go-to analogy now instead of cars!) recycle the previous flagship model as a medium tier each iteration. Eg Galaxy S5 Neo.

Failure by what success criteria?

Cjail's poetic fancies regards consoles! It's just a personal thing about the romance/ideals of consoles and how that era is coming to a cold, hard close, relegating the chivalric notions of ecclectic hardware and exciting awaiting of new machines to history books covered in the caustic dust of Business and Commerce.

 

[deathindustrial]

Unless Sony relaxes its DRM to behave like last gen there is zero incentive for folks like me to upgrade. If my wife can't play Binding Of Isaac on the PS4 in the bedroom because I'm logged into the Neo in the front room, what's the point in buying a second box? This is starting to seem like another Sony own goal incoming.

 

[AlNom]

If Sony are releasing the Kaio Ken ps4 with new shrink process, what's stopping them from also releasing a vanilla PS4 on the same process but much smaller and quieter?

I suppose they'd have to maintain two separate production lines assuming an optimized motherboard configuration for the PS4Saibamen.

Even if they do it with salvage chips, there might still be a need to do additional software QA on top of OG PS4 and PS4Neo. idk.

 

[Cjail]

I meant failure of the console model as we have/know/had it, not a commercial failure for PS4.

If a few years cycle is not sustainable then it would be better just to drop the whole fixed hardware idea and sell exclusives via a service.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I meant failure of the console model as we have/know/had it, not a commercial failure for PS4.

Why 'failure' instead of 'evolution' ?

 

[liolio]

Why 'failure' instead of 'evolution' ?

Well you can't pretend it is evolution based on a single occurrence. As I see it is neither a failure if Sony manages right.
There are risks but Sony pretty kick MSFT out of this gen if they pull it right it is worth some risks.

 

[hesido]

Unless Sony relaxes its DRM to behave like last gen there is zero incentive for folks like me to upgrade. If my wife can't play Binding Of Isaac on the PS4 in the bedroom because I'm logged into the Neo in the front room, what's the point in buying a second box? This is starting to seem like another Sony own goal incoming.

A bit off topic, but your wife can play binding of isaac while you are playing. But one of you have to be connected to psn and be using different accounts.

 

[BadTB25]

- As a non-PS4 owner, I'm excited for the NEO if the pricing is right since I have yet to pick up one. Right now, only a few titles really tempt me, but if I did pick one up, it would be the NEO.
- For some PS4 owners, especially for those a little financially challenged, I can understand the ire of a somewhat upgraded console that will have titles with performance enhancements. A part of that is probably knowing that your machine isn't the latest/greatest console.

Also, I don't the phone analogy really works here.

A phone is something you have on or near you pretty much all the time. It's nearly essential part of your daily life activities.

A console is a usually kept at a fixed location and turned on only when intended to play or consume media. In the case of my X1, it is also turned on when watching TV.

I'm not willing to bet that people will be happy to upgrade their consoles on a more frequent basis or even to get incremental updates ala phones/tablets. I think you lose something in the process when consoles start doing incremental upgrades. For me, I'm always excited and hyped for new gen launches. I think you'd lose a little bit of that with mid-gen upgrade cycles.

 

[Cjail]

Why 'failure' instead of 'evolution' ?

The evolution means the disappearence of fixed hardware gaming machines a.k.a. consoles.
Whether this is positive or negative it's not my concern.
I only see something that no longer works so I see the failure of a model.

 

[pjbliverpool]

1 AMD has an architecture better suited for DX12

Says who? What is your evidence for this? I've already told you that Maxwell is more fully compliant with the DX12 feature set. Were you even aware of this? AMD has some advantages in the DX12 space too (Tier 3 resource binding for example) but to claim one is more suited to DX12 than the other at this stage is nonsensical, there is virtually no material with which to properly compare the two.

Further, you are making this same proclamation not only for Maxwell but for the as yet unreleased Pascal architecture for which we have little to no information. It's laughable.

2 AMD cards with less theoretical FLOPS perform better than NVIDIA cards in DX12

This is simply flat out wrong. Putting aside there are no proper DX12 games to test against, even if we take the most extreme AMD favouring example of Hitman (which is equally favourable to AMD in DX11 and DX12), then we still see Maxwell generally outperforming AMD architectures on a flop for flop basis. Maxwell is simply much more efficient than AMD per flop. Not that this means anything in isolation but you raised it so I'm correcting it.

Example: the 980Ti and the 290x have the same 5.6TF yet even in this game the 980Ti is faster. In every other game, it obliterates the 290x. The same holds true right down the product line.

http://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/hitman-v-directx-12-test-gpu.html

4 current and future console videogame development has more in common with DX12 than the old NVIDIA optimised engines

If by "old nvidia optimised engines" you mean DX11 based engines then hopefully you're right. Although most current development probably has more in common with DX11 than DX12, even on consoles.

5 "but NVIDIA can't write drivers!! Once they learn how to, NVIDIA will beat AMD at DX12"

What nonsense drivel is this? It's widely accepted that Nvidia's driver support is better than AMD's, but both IHV's are very new to the game of DX12 optimisation and it always takes time for them to hit a good level of driver optimisation. In this case AMD have been given a good head start thanks to their work on Mantle.

6 no games use DX12

So you agree with me on this now? If that's true then on what basis do you claim AMD is better suited to it if there is currently no way to properly test this?

7 PS4.5 will have +4 TFLOP of AMD DX12 architecture

Yup.

8 PC fans want to believe +4 TFLOP AMD will not match a 970 card at DX12

There is no "want to believe" about it. You have already been given evidence and have none to offer in response. The GTX970 is about 50% faster on average at 1080p than the latest AMD architecture in the form of the 4 TF 380x in a cross section of modern PS4 era games:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_XtremeGaming/23.html

9 this is no console war, it's ONLY about AMD having DX12 level architecture

Just like Nvidia.

 

[MrFox]

But Nvidia has less efficiency.

 

[steveOrino]

IMO its not economically smart (or viable) anymore to ride out a system for nearly a decade only to have both hardware sales and software trail off past the midway point till the start of new canyon sized gap between generations. I personally don't see this as a risk. Commodity hardware has made this possible and I see it being the norm going forward.

 

[mpg1]

IMO its not economically smart (or viable) anymore to ride out a system for nearly a decade only to have both hardware sales and software trail off past the midway point till the start of new canyon sized gap between generations. I personally don't see this as a risk. Commodity hardware has made this possible and I see it being the norm going forward.

Piggybacking on the benefits of PC commodity hardware R&D that is then mass produced at game console level volumes. Potent combination in terms of price/performance if executed right.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I only see something that no longer works so I see the failure of a model.

Just because Sony is looking to change their console strategy does not mean the existing console strategy has failed. This generation has broken all previous records, it's objectively successful. Evolving what works is how most markets work.

 

[mpg1]

Also sort of off topic but...even though I suspect Sony will not be launching a wholly new designed controller with this system I would at least would like them to drop the giant light from the DS4...also bigger capacity battery would be nice. Simple changes but would be welcomed.

 

[pjbliverpool]

But Nvidia has less efficiency.

I see what you did there....