PS3/X360: The possibility to render 95% scene of StarWar EP3

[blakjedi]

The lava scenes would demolish either console easily...

 

[zidane1strife]

In defense of crazy claims, something like Heavenly Sword is showing a LOT happening. The FFVII Tech demo was amazing too. I don't know how close to full SW scenes they could get but the gap isn't so great.

Remember render farms use complicated, high-qulaity rendering algorithms. Realtime uses polygon chugging monsters. It works differently, doesn't have the same quality, and is a lot quicker. Think how long it would take to raytrace the Heavenly Sword scenes, and then see how by switching to a different rendering method, it becomes realtime.

Creating cinematic frames at cinematic resolutions and cinematic quality? No way. Creating similar visuals, at TV resolutions, in poly-rendering. We're getting closer.

"Creating similar visuals, at TV resolutions, in poly-rendering. We're getting closer." This is exact what I want to know, actually, I set the limitation of resolution. Is it possible or just meaningless?

You will not be rendering accurate replicas. The difference will be distinguishable. If you looks at Episode 3 on one TV and the console rendering on another TV, you'll notice. The question that I don't think anyone can answer yet is by how much?

Take the robot army scene on Naboo from EP1. All those robots unfurling. That might well be possible in realtime on next-gen consoles with lower poly models and normal mapping. The robots are all identical so it's a pretty easy scene to setup. Use fake reflections and no-one will notice. Rendering people is still going to be hard. Look at the Doc Oc example - that was damned realistic. Then look at the other game examples. People look okay, but not real. The processing requirements for Super Doc rendering are too much to feature in complicated scenes. So really, the computer generated imagery from films will be reproducable at some level of degredation in realtime. No-one knows what the quality will be like though.

I concur, this is similar to what I stated months ago. That improvements in real-time s/w cheats/hacks combined with new h/w designs would allow for a jump more impressive than the spec-jump alone would suggest. Using far lower rez- far less AA, lower IQ, lower rez textures, simpler models, the look of many an old CGI could be replicated in real-time with decent results.

Of course back then I'd assumed we'd have a BE + PS monstrosity with 1GB XDR, but problems with scaling down kept the design simpler(I'd also thought that the system could be released as a 2-Cell+-PS-GPU in one chip, to reduce costs, but that too required 65nm or below).

The final system may in fact be not too far behind given the contribution of Nvidia.(Plus if Nvidia's RSX is uber powerful, this may p!ss MS enough that they'd venture into using their sith-esque-monopoly powers to crush NV... thus setting'em up to become a future sony acquisition - this'd set up a "DOMINO EFFECT")

 

[Acert93]

Where is this 95% figure coming from?

Someone in the industry?

Or did someone just make it up to make a post?

 

[mckmas8808]

I just seen the movie tonight and I have to say the PS3 might get close. For anybody that has actually seen the movie, some of the effects look do-able.

I'm not trying to argue, but I have to make my point. IF the Killzone demo that we saw ends up being exactly what we will seen in realtime then I would say the PS3 may show about 80% of what the movie shown. Alot of particle effects like thick smoke and cool looking fire looked about 80 to 90 percent of what the movie shown.

So yeah IF Motostorm and Killzone graphics are what we exactly get on the PS3 then I can say with confidence it would be able to handle up to about 80% of what Episode 3 special effects has.
________
Hawaii Dispensary

 

[PC-Engine]

Lots of IFs there...

 

[mckmas8808]

Well you know I didn't want to go back down that is it realtime road again. But really the thick smoke in the Killzone demo looked 100% as thick as the smoke in the Episode 3 video.
________
Vapir No2

 

[PC-Engine]

Well you know I didn't want to go back down that is it realtime road again. But really the thick smoke in the Killzone demo looked 100% as thick as the smoke in the Episode 3 video.

There's more to CGI than just smoke.

 

[Gerry]

There's more to CGI than just smoke.

Yup. There's all those mirrors as well.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

This is so out of this world absurdely stupid that I've gotta get all my pals from the industry to read it and have a good laugh.

PS3 rendering Episode3 in realtime - it's the joke of the year...

 

[passby]

PS3 rendering Episode3 in realtime - it's the joke of the year...

Actually it'll last many years - entire lifespan of the machine.

'Toy Story graphics...'
'Everything will be connected online! Like movie Matrix!...'
We have one more entry to this collection!

 

[London Geezer]

This is so out of this world absurdely stupid that I've gotta get all my pals from the industry to read it and have a good laugh.

PS3 rendering Episode3 in realtime - it's the joke of the year...

It is a good joke, but the same thing happened with PS2, if you remember. Bloody George Lucas came out saying something along the lines of "It takes us days to render the CGI in Ep.1 then Sony comes out with this game machine which can do all that in Realtime"...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That statement of George's I really can't fathom. A lot of the boasts of PS2 seemed rather subjective and could be taken, if you squint with your head on one side, as being indicative of the sort of leap in graphics performance to expect, rather than actually performance.

But Lucas's statement is crazy. I guess he hadn't seen much real-time graphics and at first glanced PS2 seemed to be comparable with offline renders? :?

What was the best the PC had to offer at the time?

 

[London Geezer]

That statement of George's I really can't fathom. A lot of the boasts of PS2 seemed rather subjective and could be taken, if you squint with your head on one side, as being indicative of the sort of leap in graphics performance to expect, rather than actually performance.

But Lucas's statement is crazy. I guess he hadn't seen much real-time graphics and at first glanced PS2 seemed to be comparable with offline renders? :?

What was the best the PC had to offer at the time?

He probably had never even seen a PS2, heard the 75 million plys figure and off he went...

 

[DuckThor Evil]

This is so out of this world absurdely stupid that I've gotta get all my pals from the industry to read it and have a good laugh.

PS3 rendering Episode3 in realtime - it's the joke of the year...

I had fun for a while too, but this is getting too far...
Lot's of people making outrageous claims which have absolutely nothing to with reality, hmm maybe I should take some acid and then read these, maybe then I could appreciate the out of this world aspect of these stupid claims.

 

[London Geezer]

This is so out of this world absurdely stupid that I've gotta get all my pals from the industry to read it and have a good laugh.

PS3 rendering Episode3 in realtime - it's the joke of the year...

I had fun for a while too, but this is getting too far...
Lot's of people making outrageous claims which have absolutely nothing to with reality, hmm maybe I should take some acid and then read these, maybe then I could appreciate the out of this world aspect of these stupid claims.

!! U're saying LucasArts have been on acid all this time!? Explains the mess they did with the prequels..

 

[DuckThor Evil]

This is so out of this world absurdely stupid that I've gotta get all my pals from the industry to read it and have a good laugh.

PS3 rendering Episode3 in realtime - it's the joke of the year...

I had fun for a while too, but this is getting too far...
Lot's of people making outrageous claims which have absolutely nothing to with reality, hmm maybe I should take some acid and then read these, maybe then I could appreciate the out of this world aspect of these stupid claims.

!! U're saying LucasArts have been on acid all this time!? Explains the mess they did with the prequels..

Hmm.. now that you mention it , Yes I think it's more than likely, atleast the Jar Jar part anyway.

 

[Ragemare]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... ect.

 

[wishcraft]

if I remember correctly, they did say they used different techniques to what they use in rendering movies. this way, on the sony conference, they can render CGI "like" graphics in real time.. so I believe it's close to possible, we'll just have to see.. btw wasn't the ps3 killzone trailer a lot more detailed than toy story, and had a lot more going on??

 

[Laa-Yosh]

if I remember correctly, they did say they used different techniques to what they use in rendering movies. this way, on the sony conference, they can render CGI "like" graphics in real time.. so I believe it's close to possible, we'll just have to see..

Different techniques mean inferior image quality in all aspects - lighting, shading, antialiasing. I also suspect that lots of data has been precomputed, like the SSS solution for the Molina head.

btw wasn't the ps3 killzone trailer a lot more detailed than toy story, and had a lot more going on??

Depends. Even Toy story 1 used HOS geometry and displacement mapping in PRMan. But they weren't making an action movie so there weren't not too many pyrotechnics...

Toy Story 2 and Bug's life, on the other hand, are very very complex, lots of procedural displacement for the enviroment and characters, crowds, and so on.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As a guess, I'd say ToyStory 1 might be in the realms of doable (at similar quality ona TV). How old is that movie? Could we say real-time is 10 years behind offline? Two more generations before Episode 3 is entriely real-time?