PS3 will not play used games?

[a688]

These industries are suffering from this at various levels.
But I guess these market are more easy for them:
There are more consumers of CD and DVD than consumers of videogames.
Movie industry have other sources of income than DVDs.
Books need lower investments.

Your excuses for other industries are bullshit. There are millions of consumers for video games. GTA games sold more copies than almost any CD.

The game industry doesn't just rely on sales to consumers. They also profit from rentals.

Books can take just as more time if not more to write and still take an upfront cost and I'd bet that they make less per copy sold than most other media since its not cheap printing dozens or hundreds of pages (on good paper no less) compared to pressing cds.

The videogame industry suffers from a crisis that none of these market have to deal with, so the loss can only make them more damage.

What? You need to pass some of that dope my way, it must be great stuff.

The used game resellers do know what they are doing and do not buy anything at any price, so the risk is very low especially if you look at the margins they do.

Do no buy anything at any price? If you are complaining about the low price you get when you sell used games to stores then quit selling them to stores, sell them on ebay or to friends where you'd get more money.

They are not entrepreneurs, they are opportunists.

Whats the difference? Entrepreneurs take advantage of opportunities.

If games where cheaper, used games would be even cheaper.
Used games buyers would have more money to spend for other things, or to buy more used games.
People are cheap, and often they don't realize they're hurting the industry, eventually they don't want to know.

Used games wouldn't necessarily be cheaper if games were cheaper. Also, if the people you want to sell items to CANNOT AFFORD THEM THEN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. Its only "hurting the industry" because they have realistic expectations. If you argument was valid, I'll go in and tell my boss that he is "hurting my industry" by not paying me more money, therefore lowering the average wage of a programmer. I can't believe that bastard is hurting the industry.

Of course, publishers will do as much profit as they can, and sell the games for a price as high as possible.

No shit. Publishers are greedy bastards. Consumers will in turn pay the least amount they can for a game. If consumers don't want to spend 50-60 bux on a new game then they won't. If stores arn't allowed to sell used games, then consumers will get the used games from their friends and your precious developers and publishers will continue to not profit from used game sales.

 

[blakjedi]

These industries are suffering from this at various levels.

But I guess these market are more easy for them:
There are more consumers of CD and DVD than consumers of videogames.
Movie industry have other sources of income than DVDs.
Books need lower investments.

The videogame industry suffers from a crisis that none of these market have to deal with, so the loss can only make them more damage.

Im all for fair use but these statements are far off the mark.

Books are not suffering from resales... they suffer because mofos dont want to read!!! And/or prefer watch tv or listen to the radio/cds for entertainment.

CD sales suffer from piracy not resales. The real culprit is that most CDs are filler and people would prefer to make their own CD from music they want as opposed to what the publisher/record company wants to sell.

DVDs form the base of the rental market and return a pretty penny to the hollywood videos and blockbuster videos companies... these companies also sell used movies (ie movies that have been rented repeatedly to thousands of consumers) who i guess "use up" the content of the dvd or videogame while its rented... see why the argument is kinda silly?

 

[Hardknock]

Magnum you've made some great posts so far. :smile:

The point still remains. We are not faulting people for selling their videogames, say on ebay or a yard sale. We're faulting large scale retailers that are selling used games(that the publisher gets ZERO money from) that directly compete with New games. Just like the rental industry, used videogames should give some small kick-back to the publishers. The publishers are the ones that pay for advertising(which brought whoever it was into the store to get the game) and pay for the development. It doesn't effect me either way, but it just seems right.

 

[wco81]

OK I read some of Jaffe's blog. Yeah he's telling publishers to try to craft restrictive policies or conditions under which games are sold. Also lobby Congress to place limits on used game sales and he's not blaming gamers for taking advantage.

I'd have no problem with the publishers trying to enforce restrictive policies. They may even get away with it because in this generation for instance, consumers can no longer return opened games. So if you pay $50 and it is underwhelming, you're stuck (and no doubt, this situation also feeds the used and rental markets).

If they bribe Congress, then I won't be so happy. But every other industry is doing it so maybe the games industry will line up and get Congress to pass anti-consumer policies.

The games industry has done a great job of moving units at $50. The record companies and movie studios envy it. But that price is probably higher than a lot of people can bear so the used market will continue to have momentum.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Magnum you've made some great posts so far. :smile:

The point still remains. We are not faulting people for selling their videogames, say on ebay or a yard sale. We're faulting large scale retailers that are selling used games(that the publisher gets ZERO money from) that directly compete with New games. Just like the rental industry, used videogames should give some small kick-back to the publishers. The publishers are the ones that pay for advertising(which brought whoever it was into the store to get the game) and pay for the development. It doesn't effect me either way, but it just seems right.

What if the major auto makers tried a policy like this would you be happy. You buy a used car and it won't run because you are not the original owner?

 

[Hardknock]

What if the major auto makers tried a policy like this would you be happy. You buy a used car and it won't run because you are not the original owner?

Like has been stated already, I don't support a "only can be played on one system" fix. And I don't think Sony would go that far. But I do think publishers should get a kick-back from the retailers.

Also this comparing used games to used car sales is retarded. For one when you buy a used car it's life expectancy(depending on how old) is much lower than a new car. When you buy a used game it plays the exact same as a new game. The average consumer doesn't care if the manual is mint condition or not. Plus with a used car the manufacturers still make a lot of money from car parts for these used cars when something goes wrong. Publishers are getting zero from used game sales, but footing the bill for all the advertising and development.

 

[EricVonZipper]

Excellent posts Magnum.

Im all for fair use but these statements are far off the mark.

Books are not suffering from resales... they suffer because mofos dont want to read!!! And/or prefer watch tv or listen to the radio/cds for entertainment.

Creating a book is much,much less expensive than a video game, video game has 50-200 authors that need to be paid....... books usually have *one* author and very little overhead, unlike video games.

CD sales suffer from piracy not resales. The real culprit is that most CDs are filler and people would prefer to make their own CD from music they want as opposed to what the publisher/record company wants to sell.

Music groups have very little ovehead, video game companies have little choice but to $spend$ and try to recoup the losses, I doubt recording artist have very much R&D or development costs, most recording artists make their money from touring and concerts, CD's are cheap advertising.

DVDs form the base of the rental market and return a pretty penny to the hollywood videos and blockbuster videos companies... these companies also sell used movies (ie movies that have been rented repeatedly to thousands of consumers) who i guess "use up" the content of the dvd or videogame while its rented... see why the argument is kinda silly?

Movie studio make their money from the Box Office, DVD sales are icing on the cake, movie studios are already double, maybe tripple dipping. video games have NO such luxury.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Like has been stated already, I don't support a "only can be played on one system" fix. And I don't think Sony would go that far. But I do think publishers should get a kick-back from the retailers.

Also this comparing used games to used car sales is retarded. For one when you buy a used car it's life expectancy(depending on how old) is much lower than a new car. When you buy a used game it plays the exact same as a new game. The average consumer doesn't care if the manual is mint condition or not. Plus with a used car the manufacturers still make a lot of money from car parts for these used cars when something goes wrong. Publishers are getting zero from used game sales, but footing the bill for all the advertising and development.

Saying that a company should get a cut of each sale of the same item is retarted. They sold it new and it becomes my lisence. If I sell it to my friend for a few $ or trade it in for a new game, why should the publisher get a cut? They did nothing to faclitate the subsquent sale(s) of the item.

 

[Hardknock]

Saying that a company should get a cut of each sale of the same item is retarted. They sold it new and it becomes my lisence. If I sell it to my friend for a few $ or trade it in for a new game, why should the publisher get a cut? They did nothing to faclitate the subsquent sale(s) of the item.

I've already addressed these points:

The point still remains. We are not faulting people for selling their videogames, say on ebay or a yard sale. We're faulting large scale retailers that are selling used games(that the publisher gets ZERO money from) that directly compete with New games. Just like the rental industry, used videogames should give some small kick-back to the publishers. The publishers are the ones that pay for advertising(which brought whoever it was into the store to get the game) and pay for the development. It doesn't effect me either way, but it just seems right.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[wco81]

Seems like you guys are saying games should be exempt from a used market because of the unique conditions under which games are developed and sold.

Can you really argue for an exception that way?

If games development costs are so much higher than other media, maybe that argues for the fact that the current model isn't sustainable?

Maybe the industry should adapt rather than expecting consumers and retailers to adapt (i.e. not participate in the used market)?

 

[Hardknock]

Maybe the industry should adapt rather than expecting consumers and retailers to adapt (i.e. not participate in the used market)?

How many times must it be said that we don't want the used market to go away? I only expect a videogame store that sells Used games that directly compete(and take away from new game sales) to give something back to the publishers. It's a win-win situation for everybody, I don't understand how anybody would want otherwise?

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I've already addressed these points:



I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

It still does not make your point of view the correct one. They sell it to me and I am free do what I want with it within the limits of the EULA. EB or whom ever sells used games has to pay for a lot of things regarding thier stores and I do not see the publisher helping them with that when it comes to used games. And since a lot of the games are at a fixed point (ie $50) as dictated by the publishers, I can see and uderstand why they want to sell used when they can.

I buy all of my games new but I am smart and wait until they reach the price point that I am willing to pay ($20)

 

[wco81]

How many times must it be said that we don't want the used market to go away? I only expect a videogame store that sells Used games that directly compete(and take away from new game sales) to give something back to the publishers. It's a win-win situation for everybody, I don't understand how anybody would want otherwise?

That would only make used games more expensive.

If as you say the renters are paying publishers a portion of rental revenues, that must be why games cost about $8 for rental.

 

[Hardknock]

That would only make used games more expensive.

If as you say the renters are paying publishers a portion of rental revenues, that must be why games cost about $8 for rental.

Okay I can see where you're coming from now, but I don't think that will be the case. First off Used games have a ridiculous mark-up. I would be more on the retailers side if they were giving better deals, but they're not. Say I buy a new game, I come in a couple weeks later for trade-in and they only want to give me $15 for it. They then have the audacity to turn around and sell it for $45. That's high-way robbery. Not only are they ripping publishers off, they're ripping consumers off aswell. They could give 10% of the profit of used game sales to the publisher I think.

 

[Fox5]

Sounds pretty fake, unless you can write to the disc there's no way to tell if a disc is new or used or unless you have some sort of online database that tracks disc serial numbers and even that is iffy at best.

Why not have a small inner ring that can be written to only once? Something maybe even only a few bytes in size?

 

[Bobbler]

Why not have a small inner ring that can be written to only once? Something maybe even only a few bytes in size?

Thats what the patent is talking about. Either allowing for a sector to be written to with the laser or have some sort of magnetic portion of the disc (which can be demagnetized in a patterned pulse based on a set disc speed, or some crazy mumbo-jumbo). The patent of course was filed in 2000 in the US and 1999 in Japan -- not something I'd be worried about actually being implemented now. It has about a dozen patents related to it almost describing the exact same things, some dating back 20 years. If Sony wanted to, they could have tried to implement this type of thing a long time ago -- It seems less likely that they'd do so now (with rental/used game business as big as it is).

Patent

 

[Inane_Dork]

I would likely go for this if it made games cost as much as DVD movies. Yeah, I might get shafted later on, but oh well. Of course, publishers would want to price games even higher than before on top of having this tech working. But if they debuted games at $20, I would pick the game up anyway.

 

[PC-Engine]

Why not have a small inner ring that can be written to only once? Something maybe even only a few bytes in size?

Because you cannot mix different R/W dies that easily or cheaply on a optical disc. It'd be easier/cheaper to make the whole disc writeable.

 

[Dregun]

You can't say the retailers of used games are benefiting from the money spent from advertising simply because that money will be spent on advertising if a game is sold used or not! If games were never sold used guess what....developers would still spend millions on advertising so that point is completely mute.

While a game is playable forever as long as the media it is released on is readable; it doesn't mean it is going to be played all the time. While an owner of a used car might drive it for 3 to 4 years after they purchased it, I highly doubt anyone here plays every game they own 200 days out of the year for 3 to 4 years! If you don't resell a game that your done playing it sits and sits until you either give it away or throw it away. The real difference is games are entertainment, although they don't have a set expiration date when they no longer work they do have an expiration date when they are no longer played/wanted.

If I was a developer I would rather give people the opportunity to buy my game "Used" as compared to having them buy a Pirated Copy. At least I would know that the game "little jimmy" has in his console was originally paid for..I got something from it at least.

The smart way!
If the developers really want a kick back from used game sales then they should partner up with the console manufactures and setup a "buy back" program. One big conglomerate between the developers and each individual console maker. They offer consumers a way to sell their used/unwanted games to them, in which they resell to others at a profit.

How its done
Have the consumers setup an online account through these newly internet ready consoles in which the console will tell you how much your game is worth (its in the drive). They credit an online account with the set amount of money that game is worth as long as the game is post marked/shipped by the date corresponding to their requests. They offer the consumer the ability to receive actual money from the game once received or the ability to have a game shipped to them from the current stock of used games available. The consumer could then place a "wanted" list of games they are interested in buying used and when available the console could give them a message saying so. If someone sends in 3 games and has over $50 credit then they could "pre-order" newly released games(or have CC information stored securely as well).

The payoff?
With thousands of people doing this every day, everyone would have a better chance of getting a game they really want used then they would by going to their local retailer. The conglomerate would generate the revenue they were missing from retailers selling used games. They would offer a service the gaming community is already supporting. They would receive even a higher profit by selling pre-orders of games cutting out the middle man. They would put great use to the online features of the newer consoles. Games that may not have made much because they sucked by initial sales could still generate revenue from other idiots buying the crappy game...and they would know more then ever that the game sucked.

The knowledge gained
With just basic information from the consumer that is buying/selling used games they can gather an enormous amount of statistical data they could offer developers to help them make better games. They would be able to show them why game A was sold X times but resold Y times and how it differs from "Great" selling titles. Using this very simple survey they could further their knowledge.

Your selling this game because?
Please check all that apply
[ ] You finished the game
[ ] You found the game too challenging [ ] Too easy
[ ] You were unhappy with the controls, story, graphics
[ ] You were unhappy with the game entirely

All of this could be taken care of right from the consoles themselves and set them up for content delivery over the internet when that stage is here. They could have so much information available at the consumers fingertips with these new consoles being internet ready if they just did the work themselves. Think about the advertising costs that could be reduced if they allow the consumer to use the console itself for receiving "wanted" advertisements of games they are searching for.

Too bad when this does happen some people are going to make millions off of it and I'm going to beat my head on pavement for not doing it myself

 

[London Geezer]

Wow check that first post out!! Welcome! We need more newbies like you around here.