PS3 will not play used games?

[Comfortably Lomb]

Isn't this sort of thing exactly what might make some buyers twinge who are on the fence between buying a 360 or a PS3? I play a lot of games, so I'm used to shelling out larger amounts of money for them, but most of my console owning friends play more casually and buy a lot of used games because they aren't willing to pay $50 for a game fresh off the presses. Not only that but we as a group swap, lend, and play games at a different houses/consoles all the time (especially with Cube games) and this would immediately end that as each game could only be played in its owner's console. A lot of that game swapping and sharing can create a buzz for games that causes others to go out and get the game when they might otherwise not do so. I know I certainly rent games before buying them when I'm not sure if I want to shell out the money for it and if I couldn't do so then I might be even more frugal about purchasing them knowing that I wouldn't be able to sell the game to a place like Gamestop if I decide I don't like it. This all just seems a little silly to me.

 

[wireframe]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have read in a while.

This protection scheme (protection from a profitable business...) would make the platform useless. Consider this scenario:

You are a devoted console gamer. You purchse the Playstation 3. You make Sony very very happy by buying lots of games, a library of PS3 titles to be proud of. You play your games day in, day out until one day your Playstation 3 decides to die on you. "Bye old friend, you served me well!" Not thinking twice about it, you go to the store to pick up a new Playstation 3. You return home to find that your entire gaming library is now useless because every single title has been "registered" to your dead PS3 now spending retirement in a land-fill somewhere.

End of story.

 

[PC-Engine]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have read in a while.

This protection scheme (protection from a profitable business...) would make the platform useless. Consider this scenario:

You are a devoted console gamer. You purchse the Playstation 3. You make Sony very very happy by buying lots of games, a library of PS3 titles to be proud of. You play your games day in, day out until one day your Playstation 3 decides to die on you. "Bye old friend, you served me well!" Not thinking twice about it, you go to the store to pick up a new Playstation 3. You return home to find that your entire gaming library is now useless because every single title has been "registered" to your dead PS3 now spending retirement in a land-fill somewhere.

End of story.

Please call the 800 number to resolve your problem.

 

[Nite_Hawk]

Please call the 800 number to resolve your problem.

"Welcome to Sony! Please press one for sales, two for contracts, three to hear about our newest pop album releases, four for home electronics, five for computers and home office, or six for our entertainment division.

...

"I'm sorry, please pick one from our following options!"

"Please press one for sales, two for contracts, three to hear about our newest pop album releases, four for consumer electronics, or five for Sony Pictures."

0

"I'm sorry, that is not an option!"

"Please press one for sales, two for contracts, three to hear about our newest pop album releases, four for consumer electronics, or five for Sony Pictures."

4

"Wecome to Sony Electronics! If you know your party's extension please press pound followed by the number."

"Press one for Computers, two for Cameras and Camcorders, Three for TV and Video, or Four for Movies, Music & Games.

4

"Welcome to Games at Sony Style! To hear about our big sale on Playstation 3 accessories, press one. For information about special offers press two. For details about newly released games press three. To hear about Connect(tm) Music downloads, press four. For all other inquiries, press five.

5

"Your call is important to us! A customer service representative will be with you shortly!"

<cue cheesy music>

for (int minute = 0; minute < 20; minute++) {
"All customer service representatives are busy. Please stay on the line and your call will be serviced in the order in which it was received."
<cheesy music>
}

<ring>

"Sony Style, this is todd. Would you like to hear about our big sale on Playstation 3 accessories?"

"Er... no. I just bought a new Playstation3 to replace my old broken one and now none of my games work anymore."

"I'm sorry sir, you'll need to contact our consumer electronic customer support for that problem. I can transfer you..."

"ah... sure I guess."

"Welcome to Sony consumer electronics customer support! Please choose from the following options. Press one for computers, two for cameras and camcorders, three for TVs and Video. Four for Audio, or Five for playstation and PSP devices."

5

"For questions related to the PlayStation 3 system, press one. For questions related to the PSP(tm) press two, for questions related to the Platstation 2 System, press three. For questions related to the PS One(tm) System, press four."

1

"Your call is important to us! A customer service representative will be with you shortly!"

<cue cheesy music>

for (int minute = 0; minute < 20; minute++) {
"All customer service representatives are busy. Please stay on the line and your call will be serviced in the order in which it was received."
<cheesy music>
}

<ring>

"Welcome to Sony Electronics - My name is Steve - How can I help you?"

"I just bought a new Playstation3 to replace my old broken one and now none of my games work anymore."

"Are you sure that your unit is plugged in correctly and you've turn on the power?"

"Yes, of course!"

"Have you put the game you want to play into the Playstation System?"

"... yes."

"One moment."

<cheesy music>

"I just spoke with my manager. You'll need to send in your games to our customer care center for reprogramming with a copy of all receipts from time of purchase. After we have finished processing the request, you will recieve new disks back in the mail that can be reprogrammed to your new PS3."

"How long is this going to take?"

"Processing usually takes two to three weeks."

"I don't think I still have the receipts from when I bought my games, some of them are nearly 4 years old!"

"Well, send in the ones that you do have. I've been also told that I'm authorized to replace any of the other disks without receipts for half off the suggested retail price."

"Those games can be found in the bargain bins at best buy for under $20 now! It would cost me less to just buy them again!"

"I'm sorry, that's the best I can do for you sir."

<click>

Nite_Hawk

 

[Qroach]

I can't see sony doing this as it would be stupid. I mean the part about not allowing used games. Stores like EB or any other place that sells used games would probably not carry the system if that was the case.

 

[wco81]

The God of War developer also posted a big long (curse word filled) statement about used games a couple months ago. It is apparently a pretty big issue, especially with rumors of companies like Best Buy trying to get into the space.

Where was that? That would be interesting to see.

Developers deserve support. I think GoW still is sellling for $50 at most shops brand new so it's held up well a year after release.

But a common complaint was about games being too short or not having replayability so people are going to sell games after they finish. Now developers and designers try things like having a lot of locked items and levels but really the challenge is to come up with compelling, addictive gameplay and fresh content, which keeps gamers subscribing to games like WoW.

A part of the reason why there is such a big used games market is the pricing of new games. And $60 for new games will only lead to more used games sales.

 

[Magnum PI]

every merchant who profits from the used market is a thief for the videogame industry.

they make a lot of money reselling used games while the creators gets nada.

used videogames market hurts the industry much more than piracy.

 

[jvd]

rentals would basicly die .


Then of course gamestop/eb (all one company) will go under as that is thier bread winner

 

[one]

The said patent is this,
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=PAJ&&IDX=JP2004103239&F=0
which was published in 2004-04-02, and it's an updated version of this patent submitted in 1999
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=PAJ&&IDX=JP2000306330&F=0
so it's an early PS2-era DNAS patent. ("Takeshi Kutaragi" represents Ken Kutaragi, probably the translator misread the kanji for his name as the Japanese documents list Ken Kutaragi as one of the inventors - you can browse his 94 patents including ones back at Sony since 1978)

Now, why this sudden dig up? It's because, there's a huge FUD fest by some fans in Japan before leading up to some next-gen console release you know

 

[a688]

every merchant who profits from the used market is a thief for the videogame industry.

they make a lot of money reselling used games while the creators gets nada.

used videogames market hurts the industry much more than piracy.

Merchants are putting up the store space for used games. The publishers/creators/everybody else arn't. Markets for used items exist because they have a place. Are used DVDs killing the movie industry? If publishers wanted to make money from used game sales, why don't they buy back used games and resale them. Retarded managers and shitty games hurt the industry much more than piracy.

 

[blakjedi]

"For english press 1

Para espanol marque el dos!!!"

valioso i would really like to see that article if you have the link cause intellectually i cant find the difference between a car and a videogame in the used markets... any object with depreciating value should be considered the same when it comes to being used... in fact CD/DVD should have less value because it is single point engineering with no maintenance as part of its ownership unlike REAL assets like cars boats houses etc.

Picasso only got paid once for his paintings yet they are sold and resold without end with no more money for him or his heirs- which is more valuable?

 

[MrWibble]

It's a tricky one.

On one hand it's hard to see what's wrong with people selling on things they legitimately own but don't want anymore.

On the other hand major retailers are turning 2nd hand games into a source of income at the cost of the publishers who sell fewer copies into retail as a result. Retail already takes a big chunk of the profit from games, it's kind of hard for developers and publishers to see them take even more money in while paying out less.

So I'm not too surprised to see anyone looking into ways to limit or stop 2nd hand sales.

However I don't see cracking down on 2nd hand sales is really going to be terribly practical (or perhaps even legal) . Instead I'd expect to see the industry move towards a distribution model that cuts the middleman out just as soon as the marketplace will tolerate it.

We (as an industry) should be making it more attractive for people to keep buying new stuff, or less attractive to get rid of old stuff. Distribute games directly online (if bandwidth improves enough), release episodic updates... that kind of thing.

 

[valioso]

"For english press 1

Para espanol marque el dos!!!"

valioso i would really like to see that article if you have the link cause intellectually i cant find the difference between a car and a videogame in the used markets... any object with depreciating value should be considered the same when it comes to being used... in fact CD/DVD should have less value because it is single point engineering with no maintenance as part of its ownership unlike REAL assets like cars boats houses etc.

Picasso only got paid once for his paintings yet they are sold and resold without end with no more money for him or his heirs- which is more valuable?

it wasnt an article it was on the gaming steve podcast, someone wrote him with the same comparisson car vs game market and he gave his response. I just thought it was a funny
coincidence that's all.
I don't know how much used games affect developers, but for the last 10 yrs or close games have been steady at 50 bucks a game, while developer costs to make a game have sky rocket.

 

[wco81]

But volumes and revenues are much higher though aren't they?

EA stock is still around its all-time high so someone is making money, despite the used game market.

 

[valioso]

But volumes and revenues are much higher though aren't they?

EA stock is still around its all-time high so someone is making money, despite the used game market.

how many smaller companies has EA bought off in the last few yrs?

 

[wco81]

A ton.

But what does that have to do with games sales and revenues being much higher despite the same retail price of games?

They still had to get those studios to develop games which sell well, as well as market those games.

EA isn't the only ones who had record-selling games.

Take Two was a bit player before GTA.

Nor was Ubisoft particularly a big operation.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Now, why this sudden dig up? It's because, there's a huge FUD fest by some fans in Japan before leading up to some next-gen console release you know

I don't think the tech will be used, but then again, I never thought a Sony CD would include a rootkit.

 

[g35er]

Here's the portion of the patent that details the technology.

[0069] An entertainment device which uses a CD-ROM type optical disk as the disk memory medium has been described above. The software used when executing a game by the entertainment device 1, which is a device for playback only (reproduction device), is directed towards the case where the game software including this optical disk, in terms of being recorded into this optical disk, is so-called used software or counterfeit software.
[0070] In order to prevent the reproduction and thus prevent the creation of the used software or counterfeit software, at least a specific code which is information specific to a disk, pulse data for generating a pulse sequence, and verification data applicable to a pulse sequence corresponding to the disk rotation are recorded in the optical disk. Thus, the protection of legitimate software can be achieved by registering these specific codes, determining whether or not matching has occurred, or determining whether or not the pulse data or verification data match.
[0071] As a typical protection mode, the following countermeasure for protection against this type of used software or counterfeit software is cited as one example. In the entertainment device, when an optical disk which is a disk recording medium in this example is played back by means of the reproduction device, i.e., the entertainment device 1, and a specific code recorded in this optical disk has already been registered in the reproduction device, since it can be determined that the specific code recorded on the optical disk and registered in the reproduction device match, this optical disk can be considered to be legitimate software.
[0072] Next, when the specific code of the optical disk has not been registered in the reproduction device in playback of the optical disk, verification data recorded in this optical disk and pulse data for obtaining a pulse sequence are generated, and it is determined whether the pulse sequence obtained by rotation and the verification data match. Since this pulse sequence and verification data will match in a new legitimate optical disk, this specific code will be read out and registered in the reproduction device. In other words, the disk can be registered as legitimate software.
[0073] After this registration, when the pulse data of the optical disk exists, since it is not subject to legitimate software protection, this pulse data is eliminated.

It looks like it is talking about used disks in the sense of counterfeit disks. It mentions "used software or counterfeit software" as if they two terms are interchangable or synonyms. The previous sentence was an example of that type of usage. Of course, the Japanese to English isn't done very well, so it's hard to say for sure.

 

[Bobbler]

It seems more that the patent is more about a "cdkey" embedded in the disc that can be read but cd copies won't have it -- so to make sure the disc is authentic and not a pirated/burned copy it checks the "cdkey". It doesn't seem like the actual cdkey gets registered to the console and then is somehow disabled on the disc (which seems to be the fear in this thread). I think someone mentioned something like this already, but that is what I got from that translation.

The player/console either has a list of valid codes or a way of figuring out if the code is valid. The code still remains on the disc, so a rented/legal disc could be used anywhere as long as the code was valid on the disc (i.e. you would be able to bring to a friends house or buy used copies).

 

[Guden Oden]

The God of War developer also posted a big long (curse word filled) statement about used games a couple months ago. It is apparently a pretty big issue

Oh noes, teh devs can't afford ferraris anymore, they'll have to settle with only a beemer! Cry me a river...