Mefisutoferesu
Regular
I always wondered why videogames companies didn't open their own used games system. That way they'd at least get a piece of the pie and possibly be able to control the ebb and flow of used software sales...
PS3 will not play used games?
- Thread starter mckmas8808
- Start date
Mefisutoferesu said:
Something like Blockbuster's system of sending DVD's home for "rent" and let the customer keep them for as long as they like, then send them back when they're finished with it, would be just COOL.
Some companies do that already i think (personally i only ever used the DVD system), but a system like that from Sony themselves (or MS or Nintendo) would provide them profits directly so they couldn't complain really.
Here's the patent
Sorry if posted already?
But here's the patent:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...aragi+AND+an/Sony&RS=(IN/Kutaragi+AND+AN/Sony
The important bit: this was originally filed for in Japan before PS2's release, in Apr 1999. PS2 and PSP have been developed and released without any such system being implemented. PS3 likely also will - not sure why people might suddenly expect Sony to start using this patent 3 systems later.
This thread should really end here. This thread might have been more relevant before the PS2's launch when this patent was actually filed, but even then nothing came of it.
Sorry if posted already?
But here's the patent:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...aragi+AND+an/Sony&RS=(IN/Kutaragi+AND+AN/Sony
The important bit: this was originally filed for in Japan before PS2's release, in Apr 1999. PS2 and PSP have been developed and released without any such system being implemented. PS3 likely also will - not sure why people might suddenly expect Sony to start using this patent 3 systems later.
This thread should really end here. This thread might have been more relevant before the PS2's launch when this patent was actually filed, but even then nothing came of it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Used games are great for the retailers they make a crap load off it .
As for it hurting sony , it would hurt them because the used game market is huge. It would cut off a) a cheap supply of games for the consumer and b ) a quick cash flow when a new game comes out that a gamer wnats
It will all depend on the market .
For sony it be a bad move esp since they have 2 generations of games now where a majority of the psone and a good size chunk of the ps2 games are now unavalible new .
jvd said:
Pirated games are great for Pirates too, they make crap load of money off it. Developers and Publishers don't see a dime from those pirated games sold, same with the sell of used games great for retailers, heck even for consumers, but developers and publishers don't get any money of them.
In Japan they had a No Resale campaign before the court ruling. Say if you buy Dreamcast games from back then, they would have No Resale stamp on the case. Sega was one of the strong supporter of No Resale, especially Yu Suzuki spoke strongly about it, so are big companies like Square, Enix, Konami, Capcom, etc.
I don't think its up to Sony, its most likely that publishers are pressuring companies like Sony to do something about it. If implemented it will be mostly be Japan only. In the US, it isn't a big problem yet.
this is just a naive comment .
When a game is pirated a dev makes no money off it . When a game is sold used the developer was payed for the inital sale. After that the owner cand do whatever he pleases with it . When he sells it back to the retailer the retailer makes money . They make money too keep the store open and sell the new games that they recieve a very small fee for and the developer or publisher is payed well for it .
And yes retailers do make little off the actual games .
Sadly stoping used games will kill off most game retailers . Now if the industry wants us to go back to the days of toys'r'us being our supplier of games and kill off almost 3 thousand gamestops / ebs and all the other small gamestores out there , then that is fine . However thier sales will not go up by much . They may actually just go down . People who would buy used will still not buy new .
Gamestops sales are 60% used since 2004 . When will it be a big problem ? when its 90% used ?
Dregun said:The smart way!
If the developers really want a kick back from used game sales then they should partner up with the console manufactures and setup a "buy back" program. One big conglomerate between the developers and each individual console maker. They offer consumers a way to sell their used/unwanted games to them, in which they resell to others at a profit.
How its done
Have the consumers setup an online account through these newly internet ready consoles in which the console will tell you how much your game is worth (its in the drive). They credit an online account with the set amount of money that game is worth as long as the game is post marked/shipped by the date corresponding to their requests. They offer the consumer the ability to receive actual money from the game once received or the ability to have a game shipped to them from the current stock of used games available. The consumer could then place a "wanted" list of games they are interested in buying used and when available the console could give them a message saying so. If someone sends in 3 games and has over $50 credit then they could "pre-order" newly released games(or have CC information stored securely as well).
Too bad when this does happen some people are going to make millions off of it and I'm going to beat my head on pavement for not doing it myself
Great Idea and post. If you get EA, Nintendo, Sony, MS, Take-Two, Ubisoft, and THQ in a room and pitch it... It just might sell... Good Luck!
Mefisutoferesu said:
Actually I know why. As a publisher I'm not going to pay you for your part time use of my new game. So you finished the game? "Play it again!"
With EB as the middle man they pay the consumer then attempt to resell the product. The entire original profit the dev/publisher made stays with them but EB had to give back part of their profit to the seller... in the hopes that they could sell it again (which might not be true). All the risk and profit loss is with EB after the original sale is completed. *That* model does not interest publishers.
V3 said:
Huge difference. The pirate needs only one copy of the game, which I guess he doesn't even buy to then copy it and sell it in the hundreds, so he makes loads of money and at the same time "robbing" the devs/pubs of many many sold copies. The used game market is different, one old game will only "rob" devs/pubs of only one sale. I doubt a used game wil be resold 100s of times...
blakjedi said:
That is the kind of stifness that might kill the industry. They have to be more flexible and follow the flow so to speak. The world is changing and they might have to change to, you can't use 100s of years of old practises in an extremely fast evolving economical scene, with global markets and what not. But sure it awlays so much easier to just forbid stuff than come up with new interesting ideas and adapt to the changes...
jvd said:
That's an interesting factoid - I didn't realise the numbers would be that high (though I'm not familar with the chain myself so I don't know if that's typical or not).
I still have mixed feelings about it. I'd love it if everyone always bought shiny new copies of the games and never traded used stuff just because of the positive effect it would have on smaller publishers. But trying to stop it in any kind of official way would be horrible thing for consumer rights and I can't see any legitimate justification for it. It's something some people *want* not something that's intrinsicly right.
Oh - anyone moaning about game prices - try to remember that the distribution chain takes the biggest cuts for probably lower risks than the developers and publishers. I'd be quite happy to cut them all out of the loop if possible - in fact I only very rarely buy anything from a shop these days, but even online sellers buy from distributors and have sizeable markups. If you want cheaper games, then costs have to be cut from the distribution side, and that means that side of the business taking a smaller slice and dealing less used stuff. Buying used games will help push the price of new stuff up.
I usually rake through the used bins whenever I'm in a shop - not because I'm looking to buy something but because I want to see if any of my old games are in there, and if they are, how much they're worth 2nd hand... last time I found one it was going for a pretty good price which was actually quite nice to see. I don't think there were any new on the shelf (though I know for a fact that had the shop wanted to stock some, there as some unsold copies sat in a warehouse somewhere... ) but even if there were I wouldn't begrudge someone picking up a cheap copy.
Here's another wrinkle to the used games or second hand games debate.
A lot of people are already lining up sales or swaps of many of the Xbox 360 games (and accessories) they are forced to take in order to get the console as a part of a bundle.
They may sell or trade them unopened or may sell them after trying them briefly.
Now, publishers/developers benefit from these bundles, do they not? The bundles guarantee them certain sales of their games?
Do they give deals to the distributors and stores to get in those bundles or are the stores just picking certain games?
A lot of people are already lining up sales or swaps of many of the Xbox 360 games (and accessories) they are forced to take in order to get the console as a part of a bundle.
They may sell or trade them unopened or may sell them after trying them briefly.
Now, publishers/developers benefit from these bundles, do they not? The bundles guarantee them certain sales of their games?
Do they give deals to the distributors and stores to get in those bundles or are the stores just picking certain games?
For one, i would think that if Sony (or anyone else) was able to make games completely secure, and no one were able to play pirated or second hand games, i would surely expect prices for those games to be much lower than they are today, seen how their "loss making evil doers" would be defeated.
Will that ever happen? ... err......
Will that ever happen? ... err......
mckmas8808
Legend
london-boy said:
No because of what Titanio posted earlier.
Master-Mold
Newcomer
All I have to say is that any console that has a system that only allows the playing of new games on said console will never be purchased by me. Imagine the headaches this would cause
The problem is far too many games come out that are over-hyped and wind up sucking. I am not buying a $50 game only to realize I dont like it then I am stuck with it. At least trading it back in will get you some money back.
Same goes for renting. If I cant try before I buy on a game I am uncertain about or have quality issues with then I wont buy it until it hits the $20 bin. If Sony wants to do this then start charging $25 for all your new games or shut-up.
Until every single game that comes out is a quality 9/10 rated piece of software this system wont work. (at least for me)
The problem is far too many games come out that are over-hyped and wind up sucking. I am not buying a $50 game only to realize I dont like it then I am stuck with it. At least trading it back in will get you some money back.
Same goes for renting. If I cant try before I buy on a game I am uncertain about or have quality issues with then I wont buy it until it hits the $20 bin. If Sony wants to do this then start charging $25 for all your new games or shut-up.
Until every single game that comes out is a quality 9/10 rated piece of software this system wont work. (at least for me)
I don't really understand what would make anyone think that all of a sudden Sony would implement a thing that they designed 5 years ago (and based off similar things dating back 10+ years). What evidence is there and what made a 5 year old patent make people assume such a wildly stupid thing would be implemented?
Even if the patent was new, what makes anyone think they would do it? Do you guys not realize how many patents are taken out on things that are never used? Dare I say, a majority of patents are like that. Its frivolous patenting; patent something that you might use someday or someone else might use. Companies come up with ideas and patent them, often with no intention of using them.
Currently there is no evidence that Sony would pull off something this silly with the most important product they have. Especially not SCE, which has shown no intentions of ridiculous actions like this in the past.
Even if the patent was new, what makes anyone think they would do it? Do you guys not realize how many patents are taken out on things that are never used? Dare I say, a majority of patents are like that. Its frivolous patenting; patent something that you might use someday or someone else might use. Companies come up with ideas and patent them, often with no intention of using them.
Currently there is no evidence that Sony would pull off something this silly with the most important product they have. Especially not SCE, which has shown no intentions of ridiculous actions like this in the past.
Brodda Thep
Newcomer
While the patent is rediculous, the idea seems to have some merit.
Let me preface this by saying that I do not think it could ever happen. But if you could guarantee that everyone was connected online you could attach games to user accounts with cdkeys. This would allow you to take your game to a friends house and play it by logging onto your account, but you would be unable to resell it.
They could even limit the resale by allowing up to two or three of the cdkeys to be in their database at any single time. After that, the game would be no good to anyone.
Let me preface this by saying that I do not think it could ever happen. But if you could guarantee that everyone was connected online you could attach games to user accounts with cdkeys. This would allow you to take your game to a friends house and play it by logging onto your account, but you would be unable to resell it.
They could even limit the resale by allowing up to two or three of the cdkeys to be in their database at any single time. After that, the game would be no good to anyone.
Master-Mold
Newcomer
(Slightly off topic)
Brodda Thep were you, or are you in Conquest?
Maybe its just a similar screen name
Brodda Thep were you, or are you in Conquest?
Maybe its just a similar screen name
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