PS3 Slim Hardware Confirmed

[Scott_Arm]

Because you're looking at a 40GB PS3's mb which is already reduced in PCB size & componentry ... Let's have a look at 60GB vs. 40GB ;


...

I'd like to see 60GB vs. slim side to side ...

Why? The 60GB had hardware backwards compatibility. Basically there was a PS2 inside the PS3. It isn't a feature for feature cost reduction. There was a significant amount of hardware functionality removed.

The new slim design looks nice. The fan looks pretty cool, no pun intended.

 

[djskribbles]

Do you think they're going to use Toshiba HDD's in every Slim, or is it going to be a random manufacturer? Anyone have any experience with Toshiba HDD's?

 

[deepbrown]

European warranty on consumer products is generally 2 years, in almost all countries, as per law. Some manufacturers actually say you only have 1 year warranty, but what your national law decrees is valid regardless of that. Likely they now advertise with what they are required to do by law anyway.

Silly question, but is UK included in this Europe law?

 

[Arwin]

Silly question, but is UK included in this Europe law?

I've been gently corrected before that there is no actual European law, only national laws, if I remember correctly. I meant more that most countries in Europe have a law like this, where there's a burden of proof on the manufacturer to show that the malfunction wasn't its falt, that changes after a certain amount of time to where the consumer has to prove where the malfunction wasn't its fault, and that combines to a certain expected lifetime for certain types of products. I'm not sure in which topic it was, but you'll probably be able to find it if you do a search.

EDIT:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1309824&postcount=51

The EU gives statutory defects liability for 2 years and not contractual guarantee which is something different. Now, here's the catch though within the first 6 month the burden of proof lies with the seller, after that the burden of proof lies with the buyer.

But that's the European directive, and so sort of the 'base line' for Europe. Various nations may have stricter interpretations (longer period where the burden of proof lies with the manufacturer, longer period combined, etc.)

 

[AlNom]

And as I understand it, they are unlikely to get any smaller due to the pin density.

It may be worth noting that the smallest ( I think...) desktop GPU with a 128-bit memory bus is the RV740 @ 137mm^2 (826M transistors). Xenos' 65nm is already at 121mm^2 (232M transistors). I'd wonder if 40/45nm were possible or even feasible* without a redesign for either GDDR5 or even... XDR. I wouldn't know if the scope of the nVidia deal would cover that though...

Cell will have a much easier time with the 64-bit XDR interface (assuming they can deal with the analog portions). At best, they might even switch to XDR2 for a 32-bit interface if they get the chip small enough.

*RSX being <280M transistors, even less if they redesign to not include the redundant ROPs.

 

[Crossbar]

It may be worth noting that the smallest ( I think...) desktop GPU with a 128-bit memory bus is the RV740 @ 137mm^2. Xenos' 65nm is already at 121mm^2. I'd wonder if 45nm were possible or even feasible for RSX without a redesign for either GDDR5 or even... XDR. I wouldn't know if the scope nVidia deal would cover that though...

Cell will have a much easier time with the 64-bit XDR interface (assuming they can deal with the analog portions). At best, they might even switch to XDR2 for a 32-bit interface if they get the chip small enough.

You are dead right about this. I have been considering writing a post about this for a while. I have previously speculated that they would switch the GDDR3 to DDR3, but that will not happen for several good reasons.
A switch to XDR makes a lot of sense because it will quickly reduce the number of memory modules and make integretion of Cell and RSX simpler somewhere in the future, at some point they could also switch to XDR modules with twice the current speed and thereby cut the number of data pins and memory modules(twice size) by 50%. Cell/RSX will indeed have room to shrink to 22 nm without hitting some pin count wall.

XDR2 still exists only on paper, while current XDR is specified to go beyond twice teh speed of the XDR in the PS3. The XDR memory presented by Elpida earlier this year is a perfect fit for the PS3 and it will certainly be the volume driver for the 1 GBit module with 32 bit interface. Using it will cut the number of memory units in the PS3 from 8 to four and reduce the power draw as well and it will likely be introduced in a hardware revision next spring, the 45 nm RSX is very likely in production right.

 

[deepbrown]

I've been gently corrected before that there is no actual European law, only national laws, if I remember correctly. I meant more that most countries in Europe have a law like this, where there's a burden of proof on the manufacturer to show that the malfunction wasn't its falt, that changes after a certain amount of time to where the consumer has to prove where the malfunction wasn't its fault, and that combines to a certain expected lifetime for certain types of products. I'm not sure in which topic it was, but you'll probably be able to find it if you do a search.

EDIT:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1309824&postcount=51


But that's the European directive, and so sort of the 'base line' for Europe. Various nations may have stricter interpretations (longer period where the burden of proof lies with the manufacturer, longer period combined, etc.)

UK has a cool law where products should "last as long as they are expected to"...and if they don't you should get a free replacement.

 

[patsu]

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2009/08/26/yoichi_wada_on_ps3_slim/

According to a Bloomberg report, Wada, speaking at a press briefing today, said that the price cut would have a big impact on hardware sales. However, software makers won't really begin to see the effects of the price cut until the PS3's hardware sales rise during the year-end sales rush. There won't be such an effect that Square Enix Holdings will have to raise its forecasts for the year ending March 2010.

 

[jonabbey]

It's sort of interesting that half of the XDR modules are now on the far side of the motherboard from Cell, back behind RSX.

I guess the extra trace length is not significant to the system's timing? I know XDR has features to cope with variable timing..

 

[Blackraven]

Some people are reading 100-245V there.

Oh cool, so it's still autovolt. Nice work (as I thought that they would use single voltage power supply as a cost-cutting measure; thank god they still continue what they did with the original model). Nice work there Sony

Anyways another pic:

 

[TheWretched]

This is what I can see... if there are any errors, point them out to me

Analysis:

a) Bluetooth/WiFi now on the mainboard, not an additional PCB (top left shielded chip)
b) The XDR chips are now positioned on both sides of the PCB, not only on one (adds complexity in the board design, but makes production easier, I guess) (lower right big chip (CELL) and the two smaller black ones right beside it)
c) - Retracted -
d) The Super Companion Chip (or whatever it was, it was never 100% clear if it really was a SCC) got MUCH smaller (above the RSX)
e) The PSU gets directly ventilated by the main fan (passive cooling originally)
f) Only one heatpipe remains, of the original 5
g) MUCH smaller fan (the original one was larger than a CD at 12cm)
h) The mainboard doesn't get put in upside down anymore as with the original PS3 (HSF was at the bottom originally, not anymore)
i) Much smaller BDROM (original)

 

[whome0]

PS3 Slim power reduction closer to 50% according to PCM Geam figures.

During DVD play back, the temperature of the PS3 Slim was 42C, compared to 45C on the 60GB PS3 phat. The power consumption was 75W to 153W. That's a 50 per cent reduction.

During Blu-ray playback, the temperature of the PS3 Slim was 38.5C, compared to 47C on the 60GB PS3 phat. The power consumption has been reduced from 160W to 86W. That's a 46 per cent reduction in power consumption.

One open issue they could do in a future is upgrading WLAN chip to get higher speed. Its an issue when trying a dlna 1080p streaming.

 

[AlNom]

c) It seems to me, that the RSX (big chip in the middle of the board) does not have the RAM on the Chip anymore (I am note sure though)

Those chips you see south of RSX are capacitors. The GDDR3 chips are still in the package underneath the heat spreader.

 

[TheWretched]

Those chips you see south of RSX are capacitors. The GDDR3 chips are still in the package underneath the heat spreader.

Right, thx... wasn't sure about that in those tiny pics (and my tiny laptop display ). Will correct it now.

 

[22psi]

Sony flexing is h/w muscles! Nice job!

 

[Thowllly]

It's sort of interesting that half of the XDR modules are now on the far side of the motherboard from Cell, back behind RSX.

I guess the extra trace length is not significant to the system's timing? I know XDR has features to cope with variable timing..

No, all 4 chpis are on the same side of the Cell, almost on top of each other, but with the chips on the back side slightly further out to the sides. (I think the 80GB ps3 also had this arrangement?)

a) Bluetooth/WiFi now on the mainboard, not an additional PCB (top left shielded chip)

Looks like it's on a separate blue PCB.

Edit: oh, wait, you meant that the blue PCB is not on a third PCB any longer...



One more thing; new power circuitry for the Cell.

 

[jonabbey]

No, all 4 chpis are on the same side of the Cell, almost on top of each other, but with the chips on the back side slightly further out to the sides. (I think the 80GB ps3 also had this arrangement?)

Ah, right you are. The original site said that those chips were Ethernet and HDMI transceivers, I just didn't map them in my head when looking from the top.

Ok, then. ;-)

 

[RudeCurve]

Really? I see a new MB that doesn't rely on external daughterboards for SATA, 802.11g and USB in that picture.. and I would expect that to save $$$s.

Dean

Of course it's going to have some cost savings, that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the number of components and board size. A WiFi chip is smaller than a fingernail and USB chip is small too. Now if you consolidated all 3 chips into one then yeah that's significant reduction in componentry. Right now it's not a huge improvment in PCB size OR componentry.

Because you're looking at a 40GB PS3's mb which is already reduced in PCB size & componentry ... Let's have a look at 60GB vs. 40GB ;

I'd like to see 60GB vs. slim side to side ...

Looks like the 60GB PCB has a lot of empty space to me. The number of components seem to be the same just more tightly packed together on the 40GB PCB.

Why? The 60GB had hardware backwards compatibility. Basically there was a PS2 inside the PS3. It isn't a feature for feature cost reduction. There was a significant amount of hardware functionality removed.

Excellent point...just amazes me seeing people go gaga over a differently shaped PCB.

I think Sony should've used blue PCBs instead of the standard green.so the fanboys could googoogaga even more.

 

[Scott_Arm]

well I wouldn't underestimate the work that goes into a PCB redesign, but comparing the 60gig PCB to the later PCBs doesn't really mean a whole lot, because it isn't a straight cost reduction. They removed significant hardware features.

 

[Rolf N]

Did anyone pop off the RSX heatspreader yet? Is it still 65nm?