PS3 sales

[Fox5]

OK here is an utterly random thought I just had. Sortof related to launch numbers...

I was just thinking...

I wonder how many HD-DVD drives are microsoft shipping right now? I'm guessing it's actually rather large number? Quite possibly larger than the number of PS3s being sold?

See I was thinking 'hmm, I wonder if microsoft ordered a ginormous batch of blue laser diodes early in the year and mucked up sonys plans by causing a diode shortage'.

That would be the ultimate in 'ha ha! got you' corporate megagiant backstabbing, and if so, awesome! ;-)

Anyway back to serious discussion.....

I thought HD-DVD still used a red laser diode? Why would microsoft order blue laser diodes?

McNealy noted that these latest figures even include 15K units that were sent to retail for interactive kiosks.

15000 interactive kiosks! That's quite a lot, I think that's more than 1 per store.

 

[nonamer]

I thought HD-DVD still used a red laser diode? Why would microsoft order blue laser diodes?

HD-DVD uses blue laser diodes. I wonder if the fact that they use so much red on their disk labeling and marketing has caused others to think the same way.

 

[London Geezer]

I thought HD-DVD still used a red laser diode? Why would microsoft order blue laser diodes?

AOD, HDDVD's daddy, was going to use red laser. However Toshiba changed the spec and now the final format, HDDVD, uses blue laser just like Bluray. In fact, if it weren't for the distance the laser has to travel to get to the disc, and the obvious change is size, the two formats would pretty much be the same.

 

[Fox5]

AOD, HDDVD's daddy, was going to use red laser. However Toshiba changed the spec and now the final format, HDDVD, uses blue laser just like Bluray. In fact, if it weren't for the distance the laser has to travel to get to the disc, and the obvious change is size, the two formats would pretty much be the same.

Are Blu-Ray disks bigger than HDDVD disks?
Besides that, I thought HDDVD used the same lasers as DVD to retain backwards compatibility without needing another laser head?
If both Blu-ray and HDDVD can use the same codecs and use the same blue laser diodes, why are blu-ray players so much more expensive right now? Why even have two formats?

 

[scooby_dooby]

Are Blu-Ray disks bigger than HDDVD disks?
Besides that, I thought HDDVD used the same lasers as DVD to retain backwards compatibility without needing another laser head?
If both Blu-ray and HDDVD can use the same codecs and use the same blue laser diodes, why are blu-ray players so much more expensive right now? Why even have two formats?

It's due to how the layers are setup on the disc, the BR's data layer is much closer to the laser allowing for more data density, the HD-DVD's data layer is covered by a protective substrate layer like normal DVD's, while BR uses some sort of special coating to protect against scratches.

Since it's alot closer, precision has to be better, and that's why the cost is higher.

(that's how I understand it anyways, but don't shoot me if it's all completely wrong!!)

 

[London Geezer]

Are Blu-Ray disks bigger than HDDVD disks?
Besides that, I thought HDDVD used the same lasers as DVD to retain backwards compatibility without needing another laser head?
If both Blu-ray and HDDVD can use the same codecs and use the same blue laser diodes, why are blu-ray players so much more expensive right now? Why even have two formats?

Sorry, by size i meant the capacity. The discs are the same physical size.

Bluray players are more expensive because Panny, Sammy, Sony and all those chose to charge more for them.

You can see that when marketed aggressively, Bluray players (PS3) can be cheap.

Price and cost don't always go together.

The two formats are VERY similar, and HDDVD is as backward compatible as Bluray. Both use blue lasers and both need either a double diode or a diode which can carry both blue and red laser (not sure they exist yet, but i heard about them).

 

[expletive]

Are Blu-Ray disks bigger than HDDVD disks?
Besides that, I thought HDDVD used the same lasers as DVD to retain backwards compatibility without needing another laser head?
If both Blu-ray and HDDVD can use the same codecs and use the same blue laser diodes, why are blu-ray players so much more expensive right now? Why even have two formats?

Someone linked to a great thread on AVS about the differences but it comes down to the smaller pit size on the disc and the precision and tolerances required to meet those specs. All the associated components cost orders of magnitude more than their HD-DVD counterparts.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Bluray players are more expensive because Panny, Sammy, Sony and all those chose to charge more for them.

Well there is a real reason why the BR diodes are more expensive, it's not all marketing. The very thing that allows BR more storage, which is greater data density (smaller pits), also requires signifigantly more precision.

 

[London Geezer]

Well there is a real reason why the BR diodes are more expensive, it's not all marketing. The very thing that allows BR more storage, which is greater data density (smaller pits), also requires signifigantly more precision.

It's more precision, but not "significantly" so.

If Toshiba was selling the first HDDVD players at a loss (as reported) for $500, and Samsung was selling Bluray players making a big profit (as reported) at $800-$1000 (now also around 500-600), then the difference in manufacturing cost shouldn't be that much.
Certainly not an order of magnitude as expletive said.

 

[scooby_dooby]

It's more precision, but not "significantly" so.

If Toshiba was selling the first HDDVD players at a loss (as reported) for $500, .

As rumoured, and never confirmed...

Not an order of magnitude definately, but it seems enought to make the costs signifigantly higher...

 

[expletive]

It's more precision, but not "significantly" so.

If Toshiba was selling the first HDDVD players at a loss (as reported) for $500, and Samsung was selling Bluray players making a big profit (as reported) at $800-$1000 (now also around 500-600), then the difference in manufacturing cost shouldn't be that much.
Certainly not an order of magnitude as expletive said.

I'll just wait for Robert R1 to appear and defend my honor with the link. ( i think it was him)

 

[London Geezer]

As rumoured, and never confirmed...

Not an order of magnitude definately, but it seems enought to make the costs signifigantly higher...

I did put "if" and the bit in brackets

The difference is definitely there, but when you strip it down to just the drive, you can see that it's not that much of a difference.

Just look at the cost of PS3 and the cost of an HDDVD player, or even the 360+HHDVD player.

 

[RobertR1]

I'll just wait for Robert R1 to appear and defend my honor with the link. ( i think it was him)

Hi

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8383411&&#post8383411

 

[expletive]

Hi

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8383411&&#post8383411

I knew your ears would ring loud enough to bring you here! +rep!

Well the post doesn't quite validate my 'order of magnitude' comment but it sure is a laundry list of more expensive componentry. (?)

 

[patsu]

Hmm... saw that post before. The problem is it's inconclusive. There is no absolute dollar difference associated to the deltas. I remember the original AVS thread also went nowhere (e.g., the IP expense may be one-time instead of variable).

I find the "order of magnitude more expensive" claim highly speculative. If it is true, there should not be any talks of low-cost Chinese HD-DVD player manufacturers in the first place.

EDIT: Oops... expletive replied.

 

[RobertR1]

Hmm... saw that post before. The problem is it's inconclusive. There is no absolute dollar difference associated to the deltas. I remember the original AVS thread also went nowhere (e.g., the IP expense may be one-time instead of variable).

I find the "order of magnitude more expensive" claim highly speculative. If it is true, there should not be any talks of low-cost Chinese HD-DVD player manufacturers in the first place.

EDIT: Oops... expletive replied.

The deltas could reflect pricing of components. If component A has much stricter tolerances than product B, there is a good chance that product A has lower yields thus cost per unit/bundle is naturally increased. Is this definitive for all? certainly not but with new tech, and lots of new components, there is a good chance that the above applies for some time. Once the process is refined for higher tolerances and yields improve we could be at the point that difference in tolerances between the 2 products is financially irrelevant.

If every discussion can only initiated after hard proof (aka, actual numbers) then most boards would be very empty I expect numbers on such items to be held very close to the chest for competitive reason thus we're left with out theories, right or wrong.

 

[patsu]

The issue is order of magnitude... not more expensive.

 

[patsu]

As an owner of one, I loved it at first but now really regret buying it. So from a personal standpoint I also consider it a failure.

Agree that PSP is a disappointment in terms of value added services so far (It has huge "potential vs value" gap due to extremely poor marketing). Even though it may not be a failure (yet), it is a rather vulnerable target.

I use it mostly for carrying personal and family media while on the road... plus a new game or two every 6-9 months.

But yeah... better get back to PS3.

 

[Deepak]

PS3 will be Sony's last console: Analyst

Some analysts went one step further, taking Hirai's succession as a harbinger of doom. No one was more pessimistic than Nomura Securities' Yuta Sakurai, who made the astounding prediction that the PlayStation 3 would be the last console Sony, the current console market-share leader, would ever make.

 

[JasonLD]

PS3 will be Sony's last console: Analyst

Some analysts went one step further, taking Hirai's succession as a harbinger of doom. No one was more pessimistic than Nomura Securities' Yuta Sakurai, who made the astounding prediction that the PlayStation 3 would be the last console Sony, the current console market-share leader, would ever make.

Since Playstation 4 might actually be PC instead of console, so it may become true after all..lol