[PS3] Metal Gear Solid 4 *spoilers*

[Neb]

I care about subpar textures, look at a game like Crysis, its not like "Oh the last mission is amazing, everything looks photorealistic, so I can forget about the first mission where it looked like an Xbox game" now is it.

Well each to their own but you wont gain much credibility with that comment! ^^

 

[patsu]

I care about subpar textures, look at a game like Crysis, its not like "Oh the last mission is amazing, everything looks photorealistic, so I can forget about the first mission where it looked like an Xbox game" now is it? Being consistent is hard.

Yes, applying detailed textures throughout may be difficult but it doesn't mean having a lower grade texture somewhere is inconsistent. The game can focus its resources on what matters throughout the game. The players will still find the overall experience consistent.

Having detailed textures everywhere doesn't guarantee great visuals. I think MGS4 strikes a good balance.

If you prefer detailed textures throughout a game, then Uncharted may be up your alley. Even then, you may be able to catch a glimpse of "subpar" textures somewhere obscure.

And I assume some of these gameplay stages are fight scenes, either the battle with Snake and Liquid at the end, or the mech battle.

Then in these sequences the game should be treated as a fighting game, and not be compared to other shooters/action games etc. Compare it to SC4 or T6 or something.

Attempting to compare one game to several great ones at once says a lot about its scope. MGS4 has several presentation formats and gameplay. It managed to hold them together pretty consistently and beautifully. That is a great achievement in itself.

Any dev, can make a scenario with a limited environment, and few onscreen characters look amazing. Just look at Ninja Gaiden DS, all the boss battles are rendered in full 3D, while the rest of the game is 3D characters over 2D prerendered backgrounds.

We are probably not looking at a generic scenario with a limited environment and a few amazing looking characters. Otherwise, you won't find so many MGS4 fans around the world. ^_^

Heck, in MGS4 you can get a game mode where there is no background at all. The entire background is pure white (worse than 2D prerendered backgrounds). Still, it doesn't detract from the team's achievement.

Find some way to play the full game. You may still hate it, but at least you will have a better frame of reference to critic it. Otherwise, we can only talk about your preferences in general, or the demo -- which is pretty limited.

 

[BadTB25]

I agree although you can gain some sense of a game with a demo. After all isn't that what it is for.

While I can see where you are coming from to a degree, it can be unfair to judge the whole game without playing it through. To be fair, you did state that your opinion was based on the demo and watching others play through portions of the game.

For my part, I will add my 2 cents on the game when I complete it. I missed my goal of finishing the game before monday, but I am currently on the beginning of Act 5. Of my pending opinion, I can say that I am glad that I gave it another go. Hopefully I will finish it this weekend and get another of my "get to" games of my list.

 

[deepbrown]

I never really questioned what was cutscene and what was gameplay. In my experience that was rather obvious, atleast from what i can remember.

I was impressed by some of the realtime cutscenes, amazed that they where realtime rendered.

I think that a lot of the hype around realtime cutscenes are ridiculously overexagerated.

It could have been implemented much better in order to gain immersion, in 99% of the semi interesting cutscenes the only thing you can do is zoom the screen, or change Snakes Camo pattern (once). The cutscenes on the airplane you can drive around a robot, that is exiting for about 1 minute.

Aside from those three things there is no gain from realtime rendering. IMO there would be very little lost in making all of them prerendered (thus probably saving quite a lot of $$$). Dont get me wrong, there are a lot of gains that are possible due to realtime rendering, but its certainly not being used in this game.

Tbh i lol everytime somebody mentions realtime cutscenes, mgs4 and immersion, the lenght of the cutscenes and the amount of boring\poorly written dialoge in the cutscenes certainly brings immersion levels down. Atleast thats my experience.

Everytime you take down the controller WHILE the game still plays (cutscene or not) is a bad sign imo. and the lenght of some of the cutscenes made me put the controller down on many occasions.

OH GOD. I'm not talking about real-time cutscenes. I'm talking about gameplay. I'm talking about gameplay mixed with real-time cutscenes - that would NOT be possible with FMV's (or at least very difficult to cut so quickly between them...ie. immediate)

 

[deepbrown]

I like the last Vamp encounter too. It's a little distracting during replay coz I wanted to see what the other guys were doing. ^_^

The chase scene in Act 3 is also very movie-like (I the jump ! Immediately thought of Nicolas Cage in some John Woo movie at that moment).

The mecha fight is nice too. The camera is closer to the mecha (compared to say... Armored Core), so the movements are exaggerated. Reminded me of those Ultraman videos/TV shows I saw when I was young.

Yes there are more moments than I can remember that really are "WOW" in both graphics and delivery.

 

[Nesh]

I found a file of the game's cutscenes edited together to make an MGS4 movie for anyone interested. Very nicely done.

You can enjoy the Story without any distractions that way during the scenes were cutscenes and gameplay played together.

Now I can enjoy the story without having to play the game if I want to and rewind to rewatch what I didnt understand.

Kojima Productions have done one hell of work in crafting the story of this game

 

[Crono]

Wow, could I get that please Nesh?

 

[Cheezdoodles]

OH GOD. I'm not talking about real-time cutscenes. I'm talking about gameplay. I'm talking about gameplay mixed with real-time cutscenes - that would NOT be possible with FMV's (or at least very difficult to cut so quickly between them...ie. immediate)

Um. Of course you can switch em up immediately with FMV's, just gotta be clever about some contrainsts.

 

[deepbrown]

Um. Of course you can switch em up immediately with FMV's, just gotta be clever about some contrainsts.

I don't believe you could do it with the speed and integration of the fist fight. You'd need to have the 720p FMV's pre-loaded during the gameplay...would chug along.

 

[deepbrown]

Wow, could I get that please Nesh?

9 hours of cutscenes, non-stop? Shudders.

 

[Neb]

Um. Of course you can switch em up immediately with FMV's, just gotta be clever about some contrainsts.

Doesn't Uncharted do this?

 

[deepbrown]

Doesn't Uncharted do this?

Yes, but that's different to what's performed in the MGS4 sections I'm talking about. I'd expect ND would do real-time if they were trying to achieve the same effect.

 

[Nesh]

Wow, could I get that please Nesh?

Here you go

Mod : Removed. This is a copyright violation. If you want to experience the MGS4 story, you ought to pay Konami for their hard work. Unless Konami/Kojima release a version, a compete rip of the story is as dodgy as a rip of a movie.

 

[Nesh]

Doesn't Uncharted do this?

Not exactly the same.

 

[FirewalkR]

The bike chase and the final boss fight are quite possibly the two most memorable moments, in terms of graphics, that I played this generation.

I still remember watching the cutscene before and at the beginning of the chase, I was all like "oh PLEASE let me play with these graphics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE" and all of a sudden I have control...

*bliss*

 

[deepbrown]

The bike chase and the final boss fight are quite possibly the two most memorable moments, in terms of graphics, that I played this generation.

I still remember watching the cutscene before and at the beginning of the chase, I was all like "oh PLEASE let me play with these graphics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE" and all of a sudden I have control...

*bliss*

Then you just let go of the aim and it's all cutting just like a cutscene...then you flick back to aiming again NOT possible with FMV's. Then again that whole chase was spoilt by loading for me.

 

[suryad]

Then you just let go of the aim and it's all cutting just like a cutscene...then you flick back to aiming again NOT possible with FMV's. Then again that whole chase was spoilt by loading for me.

I see your point about the loading, but the loading times were not as bad as I was thinking. The game loads up quick!

 

[patsu]

I found a file of the game's cutscenes edited together to make an MGS4 movie for anyone interested. Very nicely done.

You can enjoy the Story without any distractions that way during the scenes were cutscenes and gameplay played together.

Now I can enjoy the story without having to play the game if I want to and rewind to rewatch what I didnt understand.

Kojima Productions have done one hell of work in crafting the story of this game

Actually, if Konami releases a Director's Cut edition (Clean up the story by cutting down existing cutscenes, patch in some new scenes, add faster + simpler gameplay modes to MGO, add new gameplay to the SP, like playing as one of the 4 beauties), I will pre-order the game in an instant. They can move the deleted cutscenes to a "Deleted Scenes" section just like a regular movie.

The bike chase and the final boss fight are quite possibly the two most memorable moments, in terms of graphics, that I played this generation.

I still remember watching the cutscene before and at the beginning of the chase, I was all like "oh PLEASE let me play with these graphics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE" and all of a sudden I have control...

*bliss*

Yup ! It's hard to describe MGS4 experiences because it's like watching a game and playing in the movie at the same time, despite its flaws.

 

[deepbrown]

I see your point about the loading, but the loading times were not as bad as I was thinking. The game loads up quick!

Oh I don't particularly mind the loading inbetween chapters etc...it's having short loading in between a fast paced chase. It's just really frustrating...slows the whole thing down.

 

[tha_con]

I care about subpar textures, look at a game like Crysis, its not like "Oh the last mission is amazing, everything looks photorealistic, so I can forget about the first mission where it looked like an Xbox game" now is it? Being consistent is hard.

And I assume some of these gameplay stages are fight scenes, either the battle with Snake and Liquid at the end, or the mech battle.

Then in these sequences the game should be treated as a fighting game, and not be compared to other shooters/action games etc. Compare it to SC4 or T6 or something.

Any dev, can make a scenario with a limited environment, and few onscreen characters look amazing. Just look at Ninja Gaiden DS, all the boss battles are rendered in full 3D, while the rest of the game is 3D characters over 2D prerendered backgrounds.

In response to whoever criticised my attempts to compare the graphics of COD4 and the MGS4 demo level:

I understand that the games are not identical in gameplay.

Yes the AI in COD4 is stupid, but that is compensated by the fact that there are som many of them (including friendlies) on screen at a time. And the AI in MGS4 is hardly impressive, Ars Technica's review of the game said the AI was barely improved from MGS2.

And in COD4 yet despite the storm of bullets flying through the air (which interact realistically with the environment remember) and the ridiculous amounts of grenades been thrown (which explode with impressive particle effects, unlike the woeful effects of the petro bomb in MGS4) the framerate rarely drops, In the MGS4 demo level at the end with the artillery fire the framerate was in the 20s or less. And COD4 runs normally at a much higher framerate around the 50 fps mark.

The argument that COD4 forces the player to stick to a narrow path due to enemy fire is also baseless, play on Recruit difficulty if you find it too hard to run between cover. In Charlie Don't Surf there are quite a few different paths available to take to get to the TV station, certainly as many (if not more) paths available in the demo section of MGS4.

And some missions like Safehouse, let you explore the entire area and choose where to attack, at your whim.

Being 1st person, the game already affords the engine quite a few more polys for the now missing character model, not to mention the shadows that probably aren't cast. You've also got a significantly more narrow POV, where as MGS4 has a wider POV and renders more while the player is moving around, since the camera is pulled back.

The camera can also be spun freely in MGS4, very quickly, which is pretty impressive, IMO.

I understand your crusade, but frankly, you're on the wrong tracks here, heading south instead of north, and carrying the wrong train.