[PS3] Killzone 3 game discussion

[nightshade]

Err, I meant the ripples in KZ3 are nice, but the surface of the water is more simplistic and there are no reflections anymore like it had in Killzone 2.

oh I see...but the water in KZ2 didn't had any reflections either. It may look like that in the video, infact it may even look like reflection when you see it for the first time while playing it, but when you actually observe it you'll see that the water isn't really reflecting anything at all.
One of the devs in the Behind the bullet video mentions that they didn't do any reflection and refraction for KZ2 cause they implemented it very late in the development cycle.

 

[fearsomepirate]

While it is visually a very impressive level, the overpowered classes change the gameplay quite dramatically into something that's perhaps easier to get into but a whole lot less rewarding than the higher-learning curve featured gameplay of KZ2.

I wonder if the issue isn't even as much the learning curve as it is that each class is quite powerful on its own. In KZ2, I feel like the individual classes were weaker, more Team Fortress-like, and required more teamwork, or at least decent class distribution. Even the Assault class was limited by the paltry amount of ammunition he could carry. And if choosing a class is more about your personal play style than teamwork, just make it a straight-up COD clone and let me build my own class with perks. I just feel like this game is trying too hard to win over COD fans instead of improving on the previous game.

I hate to be one of those guys that carps about the old game being better and can't accept the new way...but the old game was better, and I can't accept the new way.

 

[Nesh]

oh I see...but the water in KZ2 didn't had any reflections either. It may look like that in the video, infact it may even look like reflection when you see it for the first time while playing it, but when you actually observe it you'll see that the water isn't really reflecting anything at all.
One of the devs in the Behind the bullet video mentions that they didn't do any reflection and refraction for KZ2 cause they implemented it very late in the development cycle.

There was one particular stage that had reflections but that was it. The characters if I remember didnt cast any reflection but the environments did, the water wasnt interactive and it wasnt transparent, although it did look good.

Killzone 3's water effects are around similar to Reach or Resistance 3 although not as animated as the latter, but it waves more realistically

 

[assurdum]

Err, I meant the ripples in KZ3 are nice, but the surface of the water is more simplistic and there are no reflections anymore like it had in Killzone 2.

I concur. I have seen the first 15 minutes of gameplay (I haven't the game unfortunately, no money ) I noticed the pool of water & whether the shader which simulated the ripples it's good, the flat surface is really horrible & remind me the past generations... pretty bizzare & unfortunate choice to me.

 

[patsu]

Is it common for water to reflect your co-op partner ? (KZ2 has no co-op). KZ3 has 2 form of water: puddles and the ocean. They seem to focus more on the rough ocean in the snow scene. I thought something was odd about the puddles even if they interacted with me. I didn't see my own reflection. ^_^

 

[patsu]

I wonder if the issue isn't even as much the learning curve as it is that each class is quite powerful on its own. In KZ2, I feel like the individual classes were weaker, more Team Fortress-like, and required more teamwork, or at least decent class distribution. Even the Assault class was limited by the paltry amount of ammunition he could carry. And if choosing a class is more about your personal play style than teamwork, just make it a straight-up COD clone and let me build my own class with perks. I just feel like this game is trying too hard to win over COD fans instead of improving on the previous game.

I hate to be one of those guys that carps about the old game being better and can't accept the new way...but the old game was better, and I can't accept the new way.

I think the complex maps and high casualty rate turn people off. I find that if I ignore my own dealth and focus on getting things done, the "superpowers" and map knowledge help tremendeously. I'll still need to risk dying in exchange for good results (e.g., charging in to paint enemies). The "superpowers" are not strong enough to make me all powerful or immortal.

Some folks complained that the maps have too many obstacles, but they are invaluable for Infiltrator because he can weave through them to avoid fire. He's actually pretty weak.

The Tactician is likely the weakest I think, but captured TSPs can swing the tide decisively. And spawned comrades are temporarily immune, which helps the Tacticians occasionally.

Marksman is unreliable. Like disguise, sometimes the cloaking is fun, sometimes it just doesn't work because your enemies are too smart. At least the Infiltrator gets to run all over the map. Marksman is like a sitting duck when cloaking fails.

I think Engineers and Medics are the most versatile. They are the "generalist" of the game. And Salamun Market is better than the new maps. ^_^

EDIT: IMHO, the medic is the most powerful soldier once you acquired extra armor, self-revival, auto-heal and triage bot (for supporting fire). I use it to remove all sorts of obstacles from camping snipers, proximity mines and rocket turrets.

The rocket turret is a b*tch but it has timing. Wait for it to fire a rocket first, then throw a grenade or shoot continuously to take it out. Sidestep to avoid the rocket at the right time. If I'm out of time and there are teammates around me, I make sure I have full stamina and then charge towards it and fire at the same time. Should be able to remove it in 1-2 tries.

The easier way is to use Infiltrator and lobe a grenade. The turret won't fire at a level 2 Infiltrator. The disguise doesn't wear off after taking out a bot or turret. The Infiltrator's and the Tactician's Rocket launcher works too, but you only have one shot.

 

[Arwin]

Pff, still working my way through the single player campaign, but only came here because I'm just about to start

Spoiler

flying, so I must be close to the end

. Got quite far today, my son went out for a sleep-over, my wife had a friend visit and I'm off today (and the whole week). Good times! This game is very, very impressive. The story isn't so bad actually, but the cutting is - the story bits are presented and edited very badly, some of the animation in the cut-scenes borders on pathetic (if they had good mo-cap, then they had some bad actors here and there ), the facial animation is a tad poor (all the faces look too much like masks and have too much detail imho), and often you get the feeling that whole bits of video went missing during pre-production.

But the actual game is great, loving every minute of it.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Pff, still working my way through the single player campaign, but only came here because I'm just about to start

Spoiler

flying, so I must be close to the end

. Got quite far today, my son went out for a sleep-over, my wife had a friend visit and I'm off today (and the whole week). Good times! This game is very, very impressive. The story isn't so bad actually, but the cutting is - the story bits are presented and edited very badly, some of the animation in the cut-scenes borders on pathetic (if they had good mo-cap, then they had some bad actors here and there ), the facial animation is a tad poor (all the faces look too much like masks and have too much detail imho), and often you get the feeling that whole bits of video went missing during pre-production.

But the actual game is great, loving every minute of it.

That practically how I found it. It is a very, very good game but when you compare it to it's predecessor it comes up a little lacking in the production values. But then if you just sit back and go for the graphics and killing helgast you're in for the game of your life!

 

[Arwin]

Finished the game last night, found myself actually liking the ending. I conclude that the story is actually very good, but the game does a shitty job of telling it. They haven't learnt enough from Uncharted yet in that respect. I agree that the fights could last longer, but I loved that there weren't any spawn points or 'get across this line to make Helgans retreat' type things, and the latter half had a better ratio of good, longer battles. I also really liked the ending in that I hated the final fight in KZ2 so much I never finished it.

Played through all of it with Move and loved every minute. The fighting system is quite deep too, and I still haven't mastered all if it.

Variation was awesome, but this game feels less hardcore than part 2, so I can see complaints in that area. This game should take some of its better fight areas and give them a horde mode to play around in, as a variation of botmode.

 

[Phil]

Arwin, you just brought up something interesting that has given me some thoughts. How much has Move influenced the direction KZ3 (single-player campaign) took? The boss fights were all relatively easy in that they hardly required a lot of movement - and I think movement, is easily the weakest link when using the move controller. If you compare it to KZ2, you had to do a lot more dodging and changing positions, especially in the final boss battle against Visari. Even fighting that flying bot in KZ2 required a lot of switching positions - compared to the one you fight outside the Stahl factory where you can practically stay in cover and fire. Even the MAWLR is nothing difficult with the overpowered weapon you need to use...

 

[djskribbles]

The only thing that I still kind of struggle with when using Move, is 180 degree turns, and I'm not even that bad. Other than that, I'm much better than I am using the DS3.

 

[Arwin]

I don't know - at all points I felt it was the reverse. Many fights were much easier because keeping the cursor on a moving enemy was a piece of cake as well as aiming being much easier and faster in general. I felt there were a lot of fights that were supposed to be more difficult but which the Move made a piece of cake. Turret sections were also dumbed down for DS3, in that they often purposly limited the range in which targets moved.

I do agree though that just running around is probably easier with the DS3. Running around and shooting on the other hand is probably easier with Move. Especially pressing forward taking out various enemies without actually changing direction/changing the center of your view. Flying Sentry Bots are much easier to take out with Move too.

I may try to play on hardest difficulty with both to see how the two compare.

 

[specwarGP2]

I think Engineers and Medics are the most versatile. They are the "generalist" of the game. And Salamun Market is better than the new maps. ^_^

EDIT: IMHO, the medic is the most powerful soldier once you acquired extra armor, self-revival, auto-heal and triage bot (for supporting fire). I use it to remove all sorts of obstacles from camping snipers, proximity mines and rocket turrets.

Medics are very powerful, especially when working with another medic. I'm surprised there arent more people using them. A 2 man team of medics could just heal each other back and forth when one goes down. Plus the bots are like an early warning system since they fire at any enemy that is in their range of sight.

 

[fearsomepirate]

The final fight in KZ2 is everything a proper boss fight should be. It's difficult, doesn't rely on hitting weak points for massive damage or QTEs, and you can attack it pretty much however you want. The best thing about it is how you can severely damage Radec while fighting off the waves of Helghast (I don't know if you can actually kill him). It was really a throwback to classic FPS design, and in a good way, too. I don't like super-scripted boss fights that are basically the same exact thing every time. On-rails sequences are a step below even that.

 

[Arwin]

The final fight in KZ2 is everything a proper boss fight should be. It's difficult, doesn't rely on hitting weak points for massive damage or QTEs, and you can attack it pretty much however you want. The best thing about it is how you can severely damage Radec while fighting off the waves of Helghast (I don't know if you can actually kill him). It was really a throwback to classic FPS design, and in a good way, too. I don't like super-scripted boss fights that are basically the same exact thing every time. On-rails sequences are a step below even that.

Well, that's possible - I never got out of the first part of the arena battle with Rico in the first place. Too frustrating for me, compared to the difficulty of everything that came before.

 

[patsu]

Arwin, you just brought up something interesting that has given me some thoughts. How much has Move influenced the direction KZ3 (single-player campaign) took? The boss fights were all relatively easy in that they hardly required a lot of movement - and I think movement, is easily the weakest link when using the move controller. If you compare it to KZ2, you had to do a lot more dodging and changing positions, especially in the final boss battle against Visari. Even fighting that flying bot in KZ2 required a lot of switching positions - compared to the one you fight outside the Stahl factory where you can practically stay in cover and fire. Even the MAWLR is nothing difficult with the overpowered weapon you need to use...

The on-rail segments are more interesting on Move, I think.

The boss fights are relatively easier in KZ3. The MAWLR episode is nice because it's rather immersive and convincing to destroy. The grunt soldiers are more difficult to take out because they tend to hide better this time round. I used to be able to run up and melee them. Now it's more suicidal to do so.

 

[patsu]

Medics are very powerful, especially when working with another medic. I'm surprised there arent more people using them. A 2 man team of medics could just heal each other back and forth when one goes down. Plus the bots are like an early warning system since they fire at any enemy that is in their range of sight.

Yap, my Triage bot ! Saved me many times by firing at hidden enemies first.

Tactician's airbot seems more powerful but it wanders too far away from the Tact.

 

[Antan]

Latest patch is live.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Well, that's possible - I never got out of the first part of the arena battle with Rico in the first place. Too frustrating for me, compared to the difficulty of everything that came before.

Radec is in the back, shooting at your the whole time. You can shoot back at him and whittle down your health. It's really just a matter of finding effective cover. Besides, the first part is the easy part.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Radec is in the back, shooting at your the whole time. You can shoot back at him and whittle down your health. It's really just a matter of finding effective cover. Besides, the first part is the easy part.

I destroyed Radec the very first time i played KZ2. I replayed the game 4 times afterwards getting all the way to him and for the life of me i haven't been able to defeat him since.

(I figured i'd gotten slower in my reactions from playing too many other shooters in the in-between with shoddy AI).