[PS3] Killzone 2

[patsu]

also the weapon variety was not bad but the knife is a bit pointless since a good firearm butting will take the enemy out in the same number of hits (mostly 2) and you have the firearm at your ready

Which level are you playing at ?
Knife is a one-hit kill in Trooper. You press the button once, but the animation is a double swing.
A 2-hit kill may be too slow for some close encounters.

it's still a good game, just i was hoping for more red faction type of environmental destruction (or i may have imagined it to be much more than what they put in KZ2)

Punching through the wall ? I think you could only remove the soft covers and the outer concrete layers (for some walls).

 

[Arwin]

Lol, I just got home and there on the doormat ... yes, my play.com order. Oh well! Poor are the impatient.

 

[patsu]

You mean the Heavy Armor Assault class thingy?

That class is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overpowered, shame they only have rocket launchers and grenade launchers as weapons thought. (to cheap weapons for my taste). They can take a ton of damage, and the boost pills are insane. Very overpowered class. You can boost, run into enemy spawn, blow up 2-3 people in one shot, and run back, if you keep moving chances are fairly slim that somebody will hit you in the head, and unless they do, you will not die w boosting and heavy armor.

I have not run into them head-on yet. But I saw grenade launchers lying on the ground, so they should be in the game somewhere. I think I shot one from behind .

The class I fear most is the Tactician. I think they should allow us to destroy spawn grenade, or let us pick it up and throw somewhere else . It's the single most game-changing factor. They are the root cause for an overly crowded battlefield (i.e., in the objective room) too.

The Assault class may be invented and tuned partly to counter the Tactician's mess above one-time. As you said, they are great for busting through a spawn point, or a holed up enemy location. They should have a more distinct disadvantage though (like slower speed without boost, or longer spawn). If the Tactician's spawn grenade is weakened, they should also weaken the Assault class.

The Saboteur is the most interesting one so far. He caused more kills even without being there. It is not uncommon for me or someone to shoot a friendly accidentally. I find that once I did that, they'd assume I'm a Saboteur and finish me off quickly. If I charge towards my own guys, a few will shoot me 1-2 times to check me out (Idiots ! ). The problem is when there are more than one friendly guys, the rest will think that I am a Sab and take me out regardless.

The Engineer's bot is pretty useful and cool. Some complained that it's too weak, but I think the bot's fine as it is. Got killed a few times by them. I am sure they are not weak. People just need to deploy them intelligently.

The level design is first class. I have not seen all of them yet. But I am very impressed.

 

[DrJay24]

Lol, I just got home and there on the doormat ... yes, my play.com order. Oh well! Poor are the impatient.

Better late than never!

I'm on my second play through on easy. It's amazing how different it plays when you take a different approach, you can flank them, get high ground, charge them, etc. I also finally unlocked the medic class, time to get my heal on.

I'm also trying to get some of the easier trophies. Three head shots with the pistol on one clip sounds easy, but I can't pull it off. Kill five enemies with one grenade? Melee kill all types of troopers, does that include everything but the mini-bosses?

 

[scificube]

Are any of you making the distinction between shadow-casting lights and lights that affect dynamic objects

Yes.

ISA/HELGHAST lights do not cast shadows. Any environment light you can walk up to cast shadows for all dynamic objects including garbage bags, ammo clips etc.

The ISA space ship area is a good example of how all the environment lights are dynamic. You cannot destroy the environment lights yet multitudes of them strobe in and out and objects passing through them cast shadows.

 

[scificube]

I noticed those lights in Salamun Bridge, hence the reason I was trying to shoot the other lights on strings.

Guerilla was talking of having 100+ lights in scenes, so am assuming these are just static lights, and the cost of dynamic lights are much higher.

BTW are the blue lights on the characters in GoW2 also dynamic?

And if the light source is static and can't be moved or shot out, why not just use 'shadow cheating' instead, and have the shadows/lighting imbued into the environment textures?

See my post above.

ISA/Helghast lights are dynamic in that the in that the interact the static/dynamic geometry. I have not see them cast shadows but I've not been really looking hard. In any case lights =/= shadows in all cases so we should use a little caution here.

The lights in KZ2 are not static because you would still need a solution for dynamic objects which includes soldiers, items and clutter which can be destroyed or moved. You can't bake the shadow of a dynamic object into the environment maps and there are many dynamic objects in KZ2.

Secondly, many objects get indirect lighting in KZ2. This would negate the savings of baking the lighting into textures.

 

[AlNom]

Yes.
...

What I meant was, the deferred lighting is for lighting dynamic objects, not necessarily casting shadows... But anyways, I see your definition of dynamic light is really dynamic shadows...

 

[scificube]

What I meant was, the deferred lighting is for lighting dynamic objects, not necessarily casting shadows... But anyways, I see your definition of dynamic light is really dynamic shadows...

In my post just prior to this one I tried to specifically ward against shadows = lighting because it doesn't.

I was explaining why shadows couldn't be baked into the environment textures in the first part of the post. I then spoke about the lighting in the second part of the post.

If I muddled my words then my apologies.

 

[patsu]

To answer vanquish's question...

* The 350+ lights are dynamic. e.g., The Helghasts' eyes will lit a nearby wall if they are close enough

* They don't all cast shadows. I think the MP game is the best environment to see them. The players' shadows is part of the gameplay (when they run past lights that cast shadow)

Is that accurate ?

[size=-2]This is the time for Kittonwy to show up to talk about self shadowing, indirect light, ...[/size]

 

[AlNom]

If I muddled my words then my apologies.

Just a little confusion on my part (reading vanquish's post). Anyhow, carry on.

 

[Dargakis]

The engine is so good, that Microsoft had to come out and make a public announcement.
True story. Think about it for a second...
Microsoft made a public announcement because of KZ2's graphics......

....

So yeah, "light" does not mean that it cast shadows. See: Halo, gears of war, gears of war2.
THe person above described it perfect, in KZ2 the lights 'light' the environment, but not all cast shadows. Those that cast shadows are either fixed, or dynamic; fire your gun and it will cast shadows.

 

[vanquish]

See my post above.

ISA/Helghast lights are dynamic in that the in that the interact the static/dynamic geometry. I have not see them cast shadows but I've not been really looking hard. In any case lights =/= shadows in all cases so we should use a little caution here.

The lights in KZ2 are not static because you would still need a solution for dynamic objects which includes soldiers, items and clutter which can be destroyed or moved. You can't bake the shadow of a dynamic object into the environment maps and there are many dynamic objects in KZ2.

Secondly, many objects get indirect lighting in KZ2. This would negate the savings of baking the lighting into textures.

Ahh of course, I forgot about the shadows cast by the AI (and Sev) when they move near a static light.

So basically you can have dynamic lights that cast shadows and those that don't?
Or do you mean that certain the objects/characters in the vicinity of a dynamic light do not cast shadows?

 

[scificube]

The articles/interview says 230/350 light sources not 230/350 dynamic light sources.



But there are lots of major lightsources that don't make objects cast shadows and all objects don't cast shadows, especially regarding enemy units. Interesting showcase/examples over at www.digitalfoundry.org/blog .

I didn't say there weren't. The question was whether the lights were dynamic or not.

 

[scificube]

The engine is so good, that Microsoft had to come out and make a public announcement.
True story. Think about it for a second...
Microsoft made a public announcement because of KZ2's graphics......

....

So yeah, "light" does not mean that it cast shadows. See: Halo, gears of war, gears of war2.
THe person above described it perfect, in KZ2 the lights 'light' the environment, but not all cast shadows. Those that cast shadows are either fixed, or dynamic; fire your gun and it will cast shadows.

Let's not invite console wars. Note the affect it has on discourse.

 

[Neb]

To answer vanquish's question...

* The 350+ lights are dynamic...[/size]

The articles/interview says 230/350 light sources not 230/350 dynamic light sources.

The lights in KZ2 are not static because you would still need a solution for dynamic objects which includes soldiers, items and clutter which can be destroyed or moved. You can't bake the shadow of a dynamic object into the environment maps and there are many dynamic objects in KZ2.

But there are lots of major lightsources that don't make objects cast shadows and all objects don't cast shadows, especially regarding enemy units. Interesting showcase/examples over at www.digitalfoundry.org/blog .

 

[scificube]

Ahh of course, I forgot about the shadows cast by the AI (and Sev) when they move near a static light.

So basically you can have dynamic lights that cast shadows and those that don't?
Or do you mean that certain the objects/characters in the vicinity of a dynamic light do not cast shadows?

Yes.

Lighting and shadowing are two different things as implemented in games. A light doesn't need to cast shadows.

A shadow you're supposed to see doesn't make much sense in the absence of a light source but algorithmically shadows can be completely independent of any lighting interactions in a game scene.

Let me be clear. The only reason I ever spoke about shadows was because the question was asked if anyone was making a distinction between lights that cast shadows and those that do not. Secondly you asked about baking shadows into textures so I spoke to the limitations to doing this in KZ2 and why its not prevalent if present at all.

-----------------------------

Am I crazy or are posts being shown out of order on the forums here?

 

[Arnold Beckenbauer]

... fire your gun and it will cast shadows.

http://i34.tinypic.com/deahdg.gif
Yeah, and the muzzle flash is so real.

 

[Dargakis]

http://i34.tinypic.com/deahdg.gif
Yeah, and the muzzle flash is so real.

true story.

you see it better in 1st person when playing though. I'll see if i can capture that.

 

[patsu]

The articles/interview says 230/350 light sources not 230/350 dynamic light sources.

Good point.

But there are lots of major lightsources that don't make objects cast shadows and all objects don't cast shadows, especially regarding enemy units. Interesting showcase/examples over at www.digitalfoundry.org/blog .

I noticed character shadows more on the MP level.

The muzzle flash also generates shadow out of enemy soldiers (Most apparent in the 4th analysis video).

 

[RudeCurve]

Does the muzzle flash cast shadows while you're moving and firing? Does it cast shadows onto moving enemies?