PS3/HDTV Rendering Speed/No Framerate Compromises

Maybe he's singling out the PS3 because it's going to have Framebuffer issues that the Xenos can effectively deal with using it's EDRAM?

Yes? No?
 
scooby_dooby said:
Maybe he's singling out the PS3 because it's going to have Framebuffer issues that the Xenos can effectively deal with using it's EDRAM?

Yes? No?
Click to expand...

Well that's what I think the implication is.
 
aldo said:
When I read this earlier, I was genuinely having a hard time grasping the statement. Brainfart due lack of caffeine in the system I guess.

Regardless, if I were to assume anything, I would assume he is singling out the PS3 because of the 1080p. For one, he states, He is referring to a higher resolution, non-interlace HDTV that is scarce in the UK. I would think that 720p HDTV's are not that scarce in the UK, but I may be wrong. London-boy might be able to correct me there.

Alpha, I thought the X360 was not capable of generating 1080p, only 1080i. At any rate if the X360 is limited to 1080i, then the mere fact that he refers to the pleasure of reviewing a game at a far higher, non interlace resolution AND the exclusion of the X360 from his comment suggests that he is referring to 1080p.

-aldo
Click to expand...

The man stated HDTVs were scarce in the UK I very HIGHLY doubt he'd be able to find one that displayed 1080p when the vast majority of HDTVs don't. Especially one small enough to "sit on his desk".

Then he goes on to state:

And of course supporting HDTV does mean that you can create and review your game’s graphics at a far higher resolution without any interlacing.
Click to expand...

Basically he's comparing the increased resolution of the HD era 720p to 480i in the past. The reason why he references the PS3 instead of Xbox 360 is because the PS2 had the most 480i games(unlike the Xbox where the majority of games were progressive), so he was just making a relative comparision I'm guessing.
 
scooby_dooby said:
Maybe he's singling out the PS3 because it's going to have Framebuffer issues that the Xenos can effectively deal with using it's EDRAM?

Yes? No?
Click to expand...

The main memory footprint difference between the two will depend on the AA level, precision used etc. but remember that X360's frontbuffer is copied to main memory anyway, so that'll eat into the difference somewhat i.e. regardless of the eDram, a 720p 32-bit framebuffer will occupy ~3.5MB of X360's main memory. The footprint saving on X360's side would relate to the zbuffer and where AA is used (as the samples are not copied out to main memory afaik).
 
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But doesn't the RSX framebuffer always have to go out to it's RAM at relatively slow 22.4 GB/s, while the Xenos framebuffer can go to the Edram and utilize the 256GB/s bandwidth?

That's probably wrong in about a dozen places, but hey I'm here to learn!
 
scooby_dooby said:
But doesn't the RSX framebuffer always have to go out to it's RAM at relatively slow 22.4 GB/s, while the Xenos framebuffer can go to the Edram and utilize the 256GB/s bandwidth?

That's probably wrong in about a dozen places, but hey I'm here to learn!
Click to expand...

The comment by this dev refers to memory space, not bandwidth. "you do lose some more memory to the frame buffer". I doubt it's an issue at all, but it's a qualifier to the setup on PS3 which is why he mentions it presumably. The physical footprint of the framebuffer in memory would be one of the last things I'd be worried about.
 
xbdestroya said:
Well that's how I was thinking at first as well Aldo, but since reading the whole quote, I feel it was refering to rendering in the larger context of HD; that is to say you have these two systems, how's the experience of HD? Since it's a multi-platform game, I think the answer was probably based on the 'common' resolution between them of 720p. At least that was my logic for changing my reasoning.

Anyway the full question/answer quote:
Click to expand...
Yeah, you are probably right. Who's to say? I just thought that Mr. Dixon was treating the two consoles as virtual equals thoughout the interview probably trying not to offend potential customers buying on either platform, so it seemed strange he would suddenly attempt to expose a weakness on either the PS3 or X360.

Here he seems to single out the PS3 for the 1080p capability while throwing in the caveat that rendering to the higher res may be difficult. Hence, answering Dixon's question, "Is it difficult? Enjoyable?" Yes to both at the highest resolution. Hence, somewhat acknowledging and yet downplaying the 1080p on the PS3.

Hardknock said:
The man stated HDTVs were scarce in the UK I very HIGHLY doubt he'd be able to find one that displayed 1080p when the vast majority of HDTVs don't. Especially one small enough to "sit on his desk".
Click to expand...
You can find some 27" HDTV's with 1080p here and here. 27" appears to be the smallest HDTV sets I can find for 720p or 1080p.

-aldo

Edit: revised duplicate links
 
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Alpha_Spartan said:
Edited, mofo. Left the "fuck" in. That's what we call "dramatic effect"? Couldn't you imagine the look of confusion on my face when you read "fuck"? It's not like I was saying, "Fuck you man!" I apologize if I offended you. Just for good measure: fuck.
Click to expand...
An alternative way of expressing your surprise and confusion that couldn't be mistrued as offensive might be something like...
Talk about an extrapolation. Where on earth did you get 1080p from??? :???: I couldn't find it.
Click to expand...
Confusion smiley shows you're confused. The wonders of modern technology we can actually transmit emotions across da web! :oops:

:D
 
aldo said:
You can find some 27" HDTV's with 1080p here and here. 27" appears to be the smallest HDTV sets I can find for 720p or 1080p.

-aldo
Click to expand...

That only accepts 1080p signals, it doesn't display 1080p. Big difference.

I've still not seen anyone produce a link to a TV that actually accepts 1080p input and displays it at 1080p resolution. They don't exist on the market to my knowledge.

Finally, most 1080p HDTV sets presently available on the market do not offer a 1080p connection. Though the HDMI standard does support 1080p HDTV, yet the majority of today's 1080p HDTV sets do not offer a 1080p interface on their HDMI port.
To a certain extent, this is explained by the lack of true 1080p HDTV gear with which these sets can interconnect.

In fact, what 1080p sets do is to up-convert 1080i material to 1080p HDTV to combine the benefits of a superior resolution of the 1080i format with the image smoothness and motion sharpness of progressive-scanning.
Click to expand...
http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/oct05/articles/phtg/1080p.htm

All the 1080p sets right now only accept 1080i signals and they de-interlace them.
 
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aldo said:
Yeah, you are probably right. Who's to say? I just thought that Mr. Dixon was treating the two consoles as virtual equals thoughout the interview probably trying not to offend potential customers buying on either platform, so it seemed strange he would suddenly attempt to expose a weakness on either the PS3 or X360.

Here he seems to single out the PS3 for the 1080p capability while throwing in the caveat that rendering to the higher res may be difficult. Hence, answering Dixon's question, "Is it difficult? Enjoyable?" Yes to both at the highest resolution. Hence, somewhat acknowledging and yet downplaying the 1080p on the PS3.

You can find some 27" HDTV's with 1080p here and here. 27" appears to be the smallest HDTV sets I can find for 720p or 1080p.

-aldo
Click to expand...

Okay it's obvious you are not very knowledgable about HDTVs, those tvs you linked to have resolutions of:

1280 x 720 pixel resolution
Click to expand...

Just because something can accept a signal does not mean it is displaying that on screen my friend ;) Like I've stated earlier I'm pretty positive he was referencing 720p and HD as a whole.
 
Hardknock said:
Okay it's obvious you are not very knowledgable about HDTVs, those tvs you linked to have resolutions of:



Just because something can accept a signal does not mean it is displaying that on screen my friend ;) Like I've stated earlier I'm pretty positive he was referencing 720p and HD as a whole.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I hastily pulled up those links under 1080p and didn't read the full product specs. Still, are 720p HDTVs that scarce in the UK?

-aldo
 
[font=Arial,Bold]
The specs seem inconsistent:​
[/font]
HDTV Compatibility

[/font]
480i, 480P, 720P, 1080i​

[font=Arial,Bold]


PC Compatible ​


Supported 1280 x 1024 @ 60, 75 Hz 1920 x 1080 @ 60 Hz​





<B>[font=Arial,Bold]
(VGA & DVI1) </B>​

​
[/font]
1280 x 768 @ 60, 75Hz
1024 x 768 @ 60, 75 Hz
800 x 600 @ 60, 75 Hz
640 x 480 @ 60, 75 Hz
720 x 400 @ 70 Hz
​



[font=Arial,Bold]
(DVI2)​


[/font]
Supported 1280 x 1024 @ 60Hz
1280 x 768 @ 60, 75Hz
1024 x 768 @ 60, 75 Hz
800 x 600 @ 60, 75 Hz
640 x 480 @ 60, 75 Hz
720 x 400 @ 70 Hz
​



​
[/font]
It seems as though it accepts PC output in 1080p, however only support HDTV input of 1080i.​


http://www.westinghousedigital.com/support/downloads/uMan/37w1uMan.pdf
 
Titanio said:
The main memory footprint difference between the two will depend on the AA level, precision used etc. but remember that X360's frontbuffer is copied to main memory anyway, so that'll eat into the difference somewhat i.e. regardless of the eDram, a 720p 32-bit framebuffer will occupy ~3.5MB of X360's main memory. The footprint saving on X360's side would relate to the zbuffer and where AA is used (as the samples are not copied out to main memory afaik).
Click to expand...
It would be a 24-bit framebuffer, prolly, as you wouldn't need alpha, I guess.

Anyway, not forgetting that Xenos has to save predicated geometry in RAM, due to tiling.

The impact of this is still an utter mystery since no-one seems to know in detail how it works.

But I'm sure a bust-up can be had over whether tiling's main memory hit is severe enough to get excited about...

The only counter I can think of is that most rendering algorithms seem to multi-pass geometry, which implies that it needs to be stuffed into memory.

I dunno... :???:

Jawed
 
 
Jaws said:
42" LCD, 1080p, HDMI/ DVI,

http://www.plexhometheater.com/philips42pf9830a42widescreenlcdtv-p-76.html
Click to expand...

You guys need to realize that just because something says it's 1080p doesn't mean it's true 1080p, you need to look deeper and go throug the specs, and even then it seems they don't tell the whole story.

From your link:
It has a universal connection for both analogue YPbPr and uncompressed Digital connection of DVI or HDMI, supporting HDCP. It can display 720p, and 1080i signals at 50 and 60Hz.
Click to expand...
 
Jawed said:
Damn longest URL I've ever seen:

http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/catalog.jsp?fhquery=fh_secondid%3D42pf9830a_37_us_consumer%26fh_location%3D%2F%2Fconsumer%2Fen_US%2Fcategories%3Ccatalog_us_consumer%2Fcategories%3Ctv_gr_us_consumer%2Fcategories%3Cflat_tv_ca_us_consumer%26&productId=42PF9830A_37_US_CONSUMER&activeCategory=FLAT_TV_CA_US_CONSUMER&fredhopperpage=detail.jsp&language=en&country=US&catalogType=CONSUMER&proxybuster=5OXYKHHRJJ40NJ0RMRESHQVHKFSEKI5P

1366x768

Jawed
Click to expand...

Again:

Supported Display Resolution

• Computer formats
640 x 480 60Hz
800 x 600 60Hz
1024 x 768 60Hz

• Video Formats
640 x 480i 1Fh
640 x 480p 2Fh
720 x 576i 1Fh
720 x 576p 2Fh
1280 x 720p 3Fh
1920 x 1080i 2Fh
Click to expand...
http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/4/42pf9830a_37/42pf9830a_37_pss_aen.pdf
 
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