PS3 and Automatic Scaling.

Anyone know how the X360 is able to do this?

there is a very nice separate display device in the 360 that scales the image and is controllable by the user. It was the same device (evidently) that had a firmware update recently to allow 1080p output so it was designed with firmware updates in mind.

the device was designed and worked on (according to Xbox Uncloaked) for a couple of years by the engineering team that was formerly from the WebTV/M2 group.
 
Anyone know how the X360 is able to do this? Is this something that can be fixed for all future games by an OS update?

The 360 does have a built in scaler. The 360 will scale the output to what ever resolution you set it to in the dash board. The 360 even has support for many custom resolutions to go alone with its VGA cable. Just an example a 360 game that is native 720P but you have the dash board set to 1080I the 360 will send 1080I to the TV.
 
Excuse me, but I have to ask again.

Is this can be a huge issue for people who expext to play on monitors & monitor like devices?
Does this kind of devices include usually scaler?

(Sorry I can't find the english name, a tv screen without nothing tuner etc..., just a screen in fact)
(i already know the need of dvi or vga adapter).
 
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Is this can be a huge issue for people who expext to play on monitors & monitor like devices?
Does this kind of devices include usually scaler?
Only if the display doesn't support 720p at least. The problem here is display devices that take 1080i but can't take 720p. I don't think that's a problem with monitors.
 
(...)They think we are the ones to just continue to buy the newest things.
Yes, well, the very nature of the society we live in inculcates us that since we are children, and that's the result, that the necessity of having it surpasses the very own ephemeral convictions of ourselves and they take advantage of it.
 
I agree though about the early adopters, we were the ones to buy the first sets of HDTVs, paying 600$ for an OTA HDTV receiver and they wont cater to us. They think we are the ones to just continue to buy the newest things.

(Everyone, take notes, cause you always get it wrong)
Technically people buying a product like this at launch are actually called "innovators" and not "early adopters". They are the people companies like Sony or Apple count on when pricing and positioning new products into the market. By setting prices high, they skim the top of the market, try to make as much profit as they possibly can out of these people (especially in the console market where they actually sell these things at a loss initially, even though the prices are quite high), and then gradually lowering the price after a while. As opposed to penetrating the market with a very low price (usually only products we buy frequently such as a new deodorant or new drink), to maximise sales and try to gain market share.

"Early adopters" are people who buy the product, still early in its lifecycle, but not at launch. These are the people who want the product, but spend some time researching it before running to the shops (or queuing outside) to get the product at launch. Or just people who can wait a little bit.

There are other categories of "adopters", and i quote:

innovators (2.5%), early adopters (13.5%), early majority (34%), late majority (34%) and laggards (16%), based on a bell curve.

There are different stages, with the Laggards obviously being the people who will only buy the product when it's in the bargain bin, when it's 2 generations old.


So, my point was... er... oh yeah, in the end the innovators are always the ones who inevitably are most at risk. They know it, the manufacturers know it, but they keep buying things at launch. And manufacturers are very thankful for them.

And now... back to PS3 scaling! :LOL:
 
There are different stages, with the Laggards obviously being the people who will only buy the product when it's in the bargain bin, when it's 2 generations old.
You shouldn't have posted that info, LB. Now I'm besotted with the idea of being a Laggard! It's such a great title! Early majority? No thanks. Innovator? Pah. But a Laggard! That's a name you'd like to boast from the rooftops!

When does the Laggard title come into effect? How long would I have to wait to get a PS3 or Wii to attain Laggard status?
 
You shouldn't have posted that info, LB. Now I'm besotted with the idea of being a Laggard! It's such a great title! Early majority? No thanks. Innovator? Pah. But a Laggard! That's a name you'd like to boast from the rooftops!

When does the Laggard title come into effect? How long would I have to wait to get a PS3 or Wii to attain Laggard status?

Oh that would be well after PS4 and Poo have launched!
 
I am really surprised that this is an issue. After all considering the hype about 'pervasive' Cell and its use in CE's. Does anyone recall..........

In the film, 48 MPEG-2 streams stored on a HDD were read, decoded and projected onto a 1,920 x 1,080 resolution display divided into 8 x 6 cells, each of which showed a different video in each cell. The company expects the technology to be used to display thumbnails for a video list. Of the eight synergistic processor elements (SPE) used in the Cell, six are used for decoding 48 MPEG-2 streams and one is used for scaling the screen. The remaining SPE can be used for a completely different processing function

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050425/104149/
 
Yea I am kind of suprise for all the fuss about HD they made and they dont support the most common HD Setting here in the states (1080i) kind of embarsing...
 
You shouldn't have posted that info, LB. Now I'm besotted with the idea of being a Laggard! It's such a great title! Early majority? No thanks. Innovator? Pah. But a Laggard! That's a name you'd like to boast from the rooftops!

When does the Laggard title come into effect? How long would I have to wait to get a PS3 or Wii to attain Laggard status?

Oh that would be well after PS4 and Poo have launched!

Hilarious! :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Is this can be a huge issue for people who expext to play on monitors & monitor like devices?
Does this kind of devices include usually scaler?

I think it should be noted that at the moment, those of us looking to use a monitor don't have an officially supported solution. That is, unless we have a monitor with an HDCP enabled DVI input. In which case we would buy an HDMI cable (from Monoprice, no less) and use a HDMI -> Digital DVI adapter (or something like this).

*How does Monoprice get away with it? The prices that is... Or maybe a better question is how does Best Buy, Circuit City, etc get away with it?

I'm about to go on the hunt for such displays myself (DVI-D, HDCP, flat panels). Something between 17" and 27" with a good refresh rate. Since DemoCoder's post made me feel like some type of HD scourge :)razz:), I figured I'd get a nice temporary solution to tide me over. If anyone happens to know of any off the top of their head, please, by all means share.
 
No scaling is not a problem, as your HDTV will scale the image to match its native resolution anyway, and TBH your HDTV will more then likely do a better job of scaleing then the PS3 would. Decent video scalers start at about the £1000 mark. And IMO and testing 360s scaler is very poor quality, while the scaling quality it offers is above what i expected for the its price its still sub-par and i prefer to have my TV do the scaling.
 
No scaling is not a problem, as your HDTV will scale the image to match its native resolution anyway, and TBH your HDTV will more then likely do a better job of scaleing then the PS3 would. Decent video scalers start at about the £1000 mark. And IMO and testing 360s scaler is very poor quality, while the scaling quality it offers is above what i expected for the its price its still sub-par and i prefer to have my TV do the scaling.


Ha! I sentence you to go back to the beginning of the thread and start over! :p
 
london-boy said:
innovators (2.5%), early adopters (13.5%), early majority (34%), late majority (34%) and laggards (16%), based on a bell curve.

:yes: Under modern PS3 economy, the above should be revised to:

eBayers + importers (0.1%) and rich innovators who bought from them at >4 times above market value
normal innovators (2.4%)
early adopters (13.5%)
early majority (34%)
late majority (34%)
laggards (16%)
 
I'm about to go on the hunt for such displays myself (DVI-D, HDCP, flat panels). Something between 17" and 27" with a good refresh rate. Since DemoCoder's post made me feel like some type of HD scourge :)razz:), I figured I'd get a nice temporary solution to tide me over. If anyone happens to know of any off the top of their head, please, by all means share.

you can try this one Link

seems to be on sale also
 
I stand by my words :) I still dont see what all the fuss is about, 1080i and....interlace flicker............*judders*

:)
So what about the problems raised repeatedly in the thread?

i) Some TVs (including some Sony TVs) don't accept a 720p input at all and on these TVs the PS3 drops back to 480p rather than to 1080i due to there being no scaler.

ii) Some TVs have crappy scalers that give worse results than the 360s built in scaler (which is actually pretty good).

iii) Using the scaler in the TV will often result in noticeable latency / lag whereas the 360s scaler is lag free.
 
I stand by my words :) I still dont see what all the fuss is about, 1080i and....interlace flicker............*judders*

:)
You can stand by the statement all you want, it doesn't make it any less wrong. Now start back at the beginning of the thread and try again.

I don't see it as a 1080i issue, I see it as an inflexibility issue. The fact is, on the Xbox 360 I set one resolution and that resolution is always pumped out. I don't need to look at the game to ensure that the resolution is supported. I don't need to worry that my TV might have a native resolution of 1024X768 or 1360X768. I don't have to trust that the scaler in my set is good.

It just works.
 
ii) Some TVs have crappy scalers that give worse results than the 360s built in scaler (which is actually pretty good).

Mmm i'd love to test that theory. It really depends on the TV, and these days, HDTVs usually have more than decent scalers. A test showing that the X360 scaler is somewhat better than the ones in, say, the top 10 best selling HDTVs in the market has not been made public so i'd refrain from making statements like the above out of pure imagination. Unless you are actually basing that statement on real proof, in which case i'd love to see it! :D

iii) Using the scaler in the TV will often result in noticeable latency / lag whereas the 360s scaler is lag free.

Again, HDTVs sold in the last couple of years have been mostly lag free. Besides, the lag would be there whether you do feed a 720p signal or not simply because, in the case of LCD HDTVs, the set still needs to scale the signal to its native resolution, which 99% of the time is that weird 1360*768 resolution (on PS3, which does not support that res, it's fine for 360).
HDTVs with "noticeable latency/lag" should not be bought, and if bought, should be returned as faulty or not fit for use. Or people just don't notice/care, which is probably the case most of the time.
 
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