PS3 and Automatic Scaling.

[Gradthrawn]

A few things I've been reading lately have me extremely concerned. I have been under the impression, that like the 360, the (PS3) user will set the TVs resolution in the system settings and then let the system sort it all out. In the case where a game is natively running at 720p, the system will then scale it to whatever resolution you set. However, it has come to my attention that this may not neccesarily be the case. For example, in GamePro's review of Resistance, the following comment is made (taken from AVS forums):

GamePro (reportedly)

On another sour note, the game supports only 720p. 1080i and 1080p support are out, barring a post-launch patch.

AVS User:

This statement was backed up by an Insomniac Employee, and is also backed up by Japanese PS3 owners who are unable to output in 1080i for those 1080i HDTV's of old.
They're playing in 480p.

If this is the case, then is the resolution that is set in the system settings for the XMB and media playback only? Does resolution get configured on a per-game basis (as it was with the PS2 free-for-all)? From reading comments on B3D from those with a better understanding of the hardware, it would seem the PS3 has no internal scaler, and that scaling would be handled by the Cell. Is this software only scaling a feature that must be implemented by the developer, and for whatever resolutions they choose? Having a 1080i CRT tv myself (no 720p support) I can't express how incredibly disappointed I'll be if this turns out to be true. In my opinion, MS made several mistakes with the 360, but one thing they did extremely well was standardize the video/audio output for all games, regardless of what the game was actually rendering at (at least, that's the way it seems to be). Set the system at what resolution best suites you, and forget it. Open is one thing, and has its benefits. No mandatory 4320p w/ 128xMSPPMAA, fine, that doesn't bother me. But for the love of God have a (quality) scaler to support the various levels of HD that’s out there. Forward thinking and future proof is one thing, and very valuable. But jeez, its just as important to support what’s out their today as well! The situation will likely be improved after the launch, as libraries improve, and "unspoken" or pseudo standards (for video and audio) are established. But that could take up to a year or more, and would leave many hanging. I'm going to continue to look into this. Hopefully, the confusion lies with GamePro. We'll soon see.

*Please note that the full quote from GamePro (in regard to Resistance’s graphics) is obliviously longer, but I cut it like I did on purpose. I have no interest in the discussing the rest of it here, nothing good would come of that.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That sounds pretty terrible, though I do wonder how many 1080i only sets are there out there? I thought virtually all HDTVs supported 720p except perhaps the oldest of the old, at which point I guess annoyingly for their owners, the need to scale up 720p in the console wasn't considered important.

Overall though, bad show if true. I guess the idea of multiple resolutions on consoles has flummoxed the console companies.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Very misleading for Sony to do this. No 1080i support?

 

[ERP]

Yes as I understand it the games have to support specific resolutions. Just like Xbox 1 /PS2 HD games.

 

[ERP]

That sounds pretty terrible, though I do wonder how many 1080i only sets are there out there? I thought virtually all HDTVs supported 720p except perhaps the oldest of the old, at which point I guess annoyingly for their owners, the need to scale up 720p in the console wasn't considered important.

Overall though, bad show if true. I guess the idea of multiple resolutions on consoles has flummoxed the console companies.

The one in my living room is 1080i only, as are many 4 or 5 year old CRT based sets.
It probably isn't a lot of sets given the rate of HD adoption 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[Tap In]

so... is there no scaler in the PS3?

 

[breez]

Maybe the GameOS with its own little SPU could do the scaling behind the back of the game?

 

[J_Saint]

My 5 year old 53" CRT is 1080i only as well. I'm not looking forward to playing in 480p after playing my 360 in HD for the last year. It also makes me favor the 360 for any future multiplatform releases if they are only 720p on PS3.

 

[ERP]

so... is there no scaler in the PS3?

Not one you're allowed to use.

 

[Rolf N]

Ouch.
The 1up crew mentioned also that Ridge Racer 7 in SDTV looks like shit and from the specifics (textures) I figure that is another game that just renders at lower res instead of scaling down from a higher default resolution.
This is btw also the case for some 360 games, EA sports stuff IIRC.

 

[Gradthrawn]

Very misleading for Sony to do this. No 1080i support?

Please note, that this pertains to Resistance. That doesn't necessarily mean other games have this problem. However, with Resistance having this problem, it breaks the idea about certain standard resolutions being supported across the board.

Yes as I understand it the games have to support specific resolutions. Just like Xbox 1 /PS2 HD games.

I'm quite disappointed to hear that. Hopefully, things will stabilize by the middle of the first generation of games and that this is just simply a "launch problem."

The one in my living room is 1080i only, as are many 4 or 5 year old CRT based sets.
It probably isn't a lot of sets given the rate of HD adoption 4 or 5 years ago.

I have a 36" early generation XBR CRT. Very nice TV, handles SD content like a champ as well as 1080i stuff. But alas, 720p support wasn't added until the generation after my model (even then it simply scaled it to 1080i). On the one hand, I'm screwed when it comes to Hi-Def in certain cases. On the other hand, this gives me a good reason to buy a new 1080p panel for gaming only.

 

[Geo]

Having a 1080i CRT tv myself (no 720p support) I can't express how incredibly disappointed I'll be if this turns out to be true.

Ah, we had one of those as our first gen HDTV. Left it in Cali when we moved (sold it and bought a DLP on the other end). Thing is, it should still scale 720p to 1080i automatically --otherwise ABC wouldn't work. . .

What are the different HD formats and how do they affect me?
ABC was on the forefront of HD programming when we decided to deliver our programming in the HD format of 720p resolution. The 720p format uses progressive scanning, just like your computer monitor. Progressive scanning offers crystal clear images as it virtually eliminates the scanning lines that are visible on most large screen televisions.

Regardless of the HD format being broadcast, all HDTVs - by law - will convert all signals so they can be viewed by your new HDTV display.

http://abc.go.com/site/hdtvfaq.html

And to paraphrase what someone once wisely said on these boards --"What would you rather have doing the scaling --your $3k HDTV or your $600 PS3?"

 

[ERP]

Nope mine won't, I can't get OTA HD and my cablebox scales ABC to 1080i.
feeding it a 720p signal produces a black screen.

 

[Ons::lob::]

Akita: Does the PS3 upscale or output all PS3 games to one resolution the user sets in the dashboard? This is a very important question for me also. My TV only displays 480i/480p/1080i. If 720p native games are going to be scaled down to 480p, that would royally suck.

IGN: You're in luck, compadre. The PS3 will display a game at whatever resolution you specify. Good thing, too, since we know it's a question many IGN readers shared.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745259p2.html

This the answer you're looking for?

 

[Gradthrawn]

Ah, we had one of those as our first gen HDTV. Left it in Cali when we moved (sold it and bought a DLP on the other end). Thing is, it should still scale 720p to 1080i automatically --otherwise ABC wouldn't work. . .


http://abc.go.com/site/hdtvfaq.html

That's the thing, this model doesn't support 720p at all. Support was added shortly thereafter in a subsequent model that does just what you said, scale it to 1080i. Although, I do wonder, I've never actually tried a 720p signal to see what happens. Hmmm.....

And to paraphrase what someone once wisely said on these boards --"What would you rather have doing the scaling --your $3k HDTV or your $600 PS3?"

My $100 million dollar Cell BE.

 

[Geo]

Nope mine won't, I can't get OTA HD and my cablebox scales ABC to 1080i.
feeding it a 720p signal produces a black screen.

Huh. Make and model?

 

[Gradthrawn]

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745259p2.html

This the answer you're looking for?

Yes, that is the answer I'm looking for, thank you! But I suspect ERP is a more reliable source than IGN. Though in this case, I hope he's wrong (no offense, ERP).

 

[Johnny Awesome]

It's terrible guys. There are TONS of 1080i sets out there that don't support scaling to 720p. I can't believe a 1st party title isn't going to work on all HDTV sets out there. So much for "true HD". LOL.

 

[Gradthrawn]

Huh. Make and model?

I'm in the same boat as ERP. Off the top of my head, Sony KV-36XBR. I'm not sure about the specific model number after that (ie 36XBR200, 250, 400, 450, etc). I would have to check when I get home.

 

[Arwin]

It's terrible guys. There are TONS of 1080i sets out there that don't support scaling to 720p. I can't believe a 1st party title isn't going to work on all HDTV sets out there. So much for "true HD". LOL.

I'll believe it when I see it.